# Questions for classical (byzantine) scholars
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-classical-byzantine-scholars/766804
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [September 25, 2016, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-classical-byzantine-scholars/766804 "2016-09-25T08:06:23Z")
**Posts on this page:** 14
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2016, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-classical-byzantine-scholars/766804/1 "2016-09-25T08:06:23Z")
Empress Theodora is famous for saying “Royal purple makes a fine burial shroud” when faced with fleeing from or standing up to a rebellion.
What language was she speaking, and what was the exact quote in that language? How loose is the above translation?
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### Author:  [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2016, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-classical-byzantine-scholars/766804/2 "2016-09-25T10:28:56Z")
She was Greek, so probably said whatever she said in that language. If the stories are to be believed she rose from being a child prostitute to Empress.
The full quote is _“Those who have worn the crown should never survive its loss. Never will I see the day when I am not saluted as Empress! Royal purple makes a fine burial shroud; I will die here rather than live hiding in exile!”_ and you can read more about her in Theodora: Empress, Actress, Whore, by Stella Duffy; published by Virago
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### Author:  [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2016, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-classical-byzantine-scholars/766804/3 "2016-09-25T12:21:39Z")
The quotation comes from _History of the Wars_ (aka _The Wars of Justinian_), book I, section xxiv, written in Greek by Procopius (Prokopios). You can read the original Greek and English translation side-by-side [here](https://archive.org/stream/procopiuswitheng01procuoft#page/232/mode/2up). She was quoting an old adage that seems to have been “καλον ενταφιον η βασιλεια εστι” (I don’t know how to type the diacritical marks). This seems to mean that royalty (not purple) is a good burial shroud. Keep in mind that my Greek is almost non-existent, so I defer to more knowledgeable posters if they disagree with me.
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### Author:  [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-classical-byzantine-scholars/766804/4 "2016-09-25T17:14:56Z")
Could just as easily mean that the empire is a perfect tomb. Anybody got some historical context handy?
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### Author:  [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2016, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-classical-byzantine-scholars/766804/5 "2016-09-27T06:25:57Z")
> [@Nametag](#):
>
> Could just as easily mean that the empire is a perfect tomb. Anybody got some historical context handy?
I believe it was during the [Nika Riots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nika_riots). One of the crazier episodes in Byzantine history, basically the Byzantine equivalent of a football riot, which cost 10s of thousands of lives.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-classical-byzantine-scholars/766804/6 "2016-09-27T14:09:03Z")
> [@griffin1977](#):
>
> I believe it was during the [Nika Riots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nika_riots). One of the crazier episodes in Byzantine history, basically the Byzantine equivalent of a football riot, which cost 10s of thousands of lives.
Well, a football riot that almost overthrows the current rulers (to the point that a usurper had been named by the rioters). And the tens of thousands dead were the rioters, after the losing rulers (Justinian and Theodora) called in the Army to settle the issue.
Theodora’s insistence that she’d rather die the Empress than live as a former Empress apparently shamed Justinian into staying, bribing the part of the crowd that was already somewhat partial to him, and then summoning his generals to kill the rest.
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### Author:  [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-classical-byzantine-scholars/766804/8 "2016-09-27T17:20:23Z")
Worst sports riot _ever_.
You know how you’ll sometimes hear that Justinian was a complete dick, but you could never completely understand why? Well, it’s this sort of thing. “Hmm, abdicate, or massacre the population of my own capital? Massacre it is, then.”
But, yeah, sure. Blame Theodora. It’s always the wife’s fault. 😉
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### Author:  [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-classical-byzantine-scholars/766804/9 "2016-09-27T18:25:51Z")
To confirm, Bασίλεια means reign, royalty or kingship. Nowt to do with purple, although this colour was, of course, connected to the role for a long period, including the one in question: [Tyrian purple]([Tyrian - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_) purple)
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### Author:  [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-classical-byzantine-scholars/766804/10 "2016-09-27T18:43:02Z")
Nm
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### Author:  [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)
#### Post date: [September 27, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-classical-byzantine-scholars/766804/11 "2016-09-27T18:53:48Z")
> [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#):
>
> To confirm, Bασίλεια means reign, royalty or kingship. Nowt to do with purple, although this colour was, of course, connected to the role for a long period, including the one in question: [Tyrian purple]([Tyrian - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_) purple)
Yeah, it’s related to basileus, meaning king, which y’all might recognize. The “purple” phrasing sure is nice, though, even if it’s a slightly creative translation.
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### Author:  [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2016, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-classical-byzantine-scholars/766804/12 "2016-09-30T06:48:39Z")
I’m sorry that I wasn’t more precise. By historical context, I didn’t mean the Nika riots or the Byzantine Empire, I meant whether the specific place and time give any indication of the connotation of the words ενταφιον or βασιλεια. The well-known translation implies that ενταφιον means “burial shroud,” but the more common definitions appear to be “grave gift” or “tomb” (presumably a large and sumptuous one). The same translation implies that βασιλεια means “royalty” or “kingship,” but it can also connote the kingdom (or empire) itself - its lands and its people. And καλον means an ideal, the highest expression of a thing.
Since Theodora was quoting an adage, one might presume that she meant more or less what the author meant, or one might conclude she was being ironic (and maybe a tad bitter). Does anyone know what the adage itself connotes? Was Theodora saying that the mere fact of dying with the crown is an excellent thing to be buried with, or that the ruins of one’s own Empire are a fitting place to be buried?
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### Author:  [@demetre36](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/demetre36)
#### Post date: [September 21, 2022, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-classical-byzantine-scholars/766804/13 "2022-09-21T02:10:45Z")
While the byzantine empire and emperors spoke greek in the later years of the empire, Justinian was the last Latin speaking emperor, he did know greek but he spoke it with a heavy accent and was probably more comfortable with latin., but latin was the language of the royalty. I know the question is about Theodora, she was speaking to Justinian and she also probably spoke latin.
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### Author:  [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)
#### Post date: [September 21, 2022, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-classical-byzantine-scholars/766804/14 "2022-09-21T03:44:31Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Panic](#):
>
> Worst sports riot _ever_.
>
> You know how you’ll sometimes hear that Justinian was a complete dick, but you could never completely understand why? Well, it’s this sort of thing. “Hmm, abdicate, or massacre the population of my own capital? Massacre it is, then.”
>
> But, yeah, sure. Blame Theodora. It’s always the wife’s fault. 😉
Well, to be fair, it’s not like abdication meant “go live in Paris with a royal stipend” like in 1937. He wasn’t prioritizing death to all, over tending a rose garden in quiet contemplation in retirement.
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### Author:  [@WatchMe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WatchMe)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2022, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-classical-byzantine-scholars/766804/15 "2022-09-23T00:55:26Z")
This won’t address the original question, which I think is safely answered and long forgotten anyway, but the quote seems to be based on “Tyranny is a beautiful shroud,” supposedly said by Heloris of Dionysius I around 130 years earlier. It is often thought that Procopius, who was very critical of the emperor, may have made up Theodora’s quote to paint Justinian as being less brave than a woman.