# Questions for those that think that the U.S.A. will collapse...and the sooner, the better
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 21, 2025, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348 "2025-08-21T04:26:02Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2025, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/41 "2025-08-21T17:12:40Z")
I agree. Before Trump we had Reagan, Bush, and Bush Jr. The problem with American politics is the Republican party.
---
### Author:  [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2025, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/42 "2025-08-21T17:49:06Z")
It’s tempting to blame the party, but which are the chickens and which are the eggs? 70 million plus Americans, most of whom aren’t politicians or leaders within the party, chose that as their best option. 70 million plus Americans, who could have voted, didn’t.
These people are not, apparently, deeply unhappy with Republican leadership. Why not? Is it that they are currently comfortable and don’t particularly care? Is it that they are ignorant and easily swayed to vote / stay home by sound bite, memes, and social media propaganda? Is it that this is just their culture and they’ve never thought particularly about how it could change for the better? Is it that they feel powerless to affect any change whatsoever?
I don’t know. As a kid I swallowed the then-prevalent propaganda that all Americans were equal and had equal rights, freedoms, and responsibilities, even though that was (at best) aspirational. I think other people might just be equally committed to the then-stronger straight white male Christian supremacy, and the Republicans are just the way that position is represented politically.
---
### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2025, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/43 "2025-08-21T18:14:09Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#):
>
> I hope that the US collapses because that would be a generation that in the most optimistic view would take a generation to recover from, and I don’t expect that things will be better if it happens.
That should be “I hope that the US _does not_ collapse…”
Stranger
---
### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2025, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/44 "2025-08-21T18:17:04Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#):
>
> It’s tempting to blame the party, but which are the chickens and which are the eggs? 70 million plus Americans, most of whom aren’t politicians or leaders within the party, chose that as their best option. 70 million plus Americans, who could have voted, didn’t.
I don’t feel this just happened and the Republicans stepped in to take advantage of an existing situation. I feel that the Republican party (or more broadly the right wing) actively worked to create our current situation, knowing that they would be able to derive power from its existence.
They created a large corporate media system in which a handful of corporations controlled the messages people would hear. They abolished the free market of ideas where the public would be exposed to different points of view.
And they have actively worked on voter suppression to prevent non-Republicans from voting.
And the Republican party has consistently relied on using fear as a means of motivating voters. They convey the idea that some group of “others” (black people, communists, hippies, feminists, terrorists, gays, pedophiles, Satanists, Muslims, environmentalists, flag burners, illegal immigrants, drug cartels, transsexuals, etc) are plotting against America and threatening all “Real Americans”. But the Republicans can defend you from this attack so vote for us.
---
### Author:  [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2025, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/45 "2025-08-21T18:57:14Z")
I agree with you, but as far I can see they have been working in this direction since the 1980s. At some point, this becomes a part of the entire culture, and not fixable even should the party change.
As evidence, I give you the Democratic Party, shifts thereto since 2000, as they drift in the same direction as the Overton window. (And Gavin Newsom’s newfound popularity as he plays with “ooh! burn!”-style memes.)
---
### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2025, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/46 "2025-08-21T19:19:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> I feel that the real power in the Republican party are the businessmen.
Only until the fascists fully take over; then they’ll be minions at best. Money has no power against people who can just have you killed if you irritate them. And no power over people who can just take it from you by force if they want it.
---
### Author:  [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2025, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/47 "2025-08-21T21:52:04Z")
Guys, relax, the US is NOT going to collapse.
Did it collapse when the southern states seceded and there was a four year civil war to bring them back costing hundreds of thousands of lives?
Did it collapse during the Great Depression when two million Mexicans were forcibly deported, US citizens among them?
Did it collapse during the era when schools would let out early so that kids could see the newspaper advertised lynchings in hopes that it would impress them with the importance of White Supremacy?
Did it collapse when corporations gunned down strikers?
Did it collapse when Nixon was forced out of office?
No, because we’ve seen all of this MAGA shit before, and we’ve always managed to overcome it. Yes, this clown Trump and his surrounding ass-kissers have dealt a blow to our democracy that is deeply disturbing, but goddammit, we’ve been through it before, and worse than this,. and we’re still here.
Now, get off your asses, and attend your local government forums, and townhalls, and participate in the demonstrations against these assholes and their hate. We have work to do.
---
### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2025, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/48 "2025-08-21T21:58:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> I think the “Trump is the real problem, so when he goes the problem fades away” solution is just laziness. It is used when people want a solution they themselves won’t have to actively participate in, actively work for and possibly get hurt (or worse) to bring about.
It’s a laziness on par with the idea that both sides are equally bad. Trump isn’t the problem he’s just a symptom as a healthy nation wouldn’t produce a head of state like him. I could accept 2016 as some sort of fluke, but there is something fundamentally wrong with any nation who chooses a weak, venal, thoroughly corrupt wannabe strong man like Trump to lead them. Maybe some voters just don’t see the corruption and the lies? In which case, what the hell is wrong with them? Maybe they agree with his goals? In which case, what the hell is wrong with them?
But to address the OP, I’ve asked the same question of my more leftist friends who have been shouting revolution since the Bush, Jr.’s administration. Get rid of capitalism? Great. What have you got lined up for us? Get rid of the our government? Great! What type of government do you think we’ll get?
While I’m not in the camp hoping the United States collapses, this is, after all, where I keep all my stuff, since the 2024 I have been hoping for us to start suffering the consequences of Trump’s policies as soon as possible. Not out of hope the US would collapse, but so people might see the folly of MAGA before we all end up in the crapper. I no longer hold out hope that MAGA or most Trump supporters will ever see the light short of economic devastation, their kids dying of preventable diseases, or their wives/daughters dying because no doctor in their area will treat an ectopic pregnancy. Even then they’ll probably blame the Biden crime family, wokeness, or perhaps Canada.
---
### Author:  [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2025, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/49 "2025-08-21T23:23:54Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#):
>
> That should be “I hope that the US _does not_ collapse…”
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#):
>
> I hope that the US collapses
This reminds me of the Beatles:
“But when you talk about destruction, don’t you know that you can count me out/in”
---
### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/50 "2025-08-22T05:44:24Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#):
>
> No, because we’ve seen all of this MAGA shit before, and we’ve always managed to overcome it. Yes, this clown Trump and his surrounding ass-kissers have dealt a blow to our democracy that is deeply disturbing, but goddammit, we’ve been through it before, and worse than this,. and we’re still here.
We have not “seen all of this MAGA shit before”. For sure, we’ve seen prejudice, racism, political corruption, exploitation, segregation, corporate cronyism, systemic persecution of minority groups, divisiveness leading to civil war, but what we’ve never had is a national party within the highest levels of government, in full control of all three branches, dismantling the administrative elements of civil governance and dismantling institutions of democratic governance with deliberate intent and concerted effort. We’ve never had a president who lies so openly, flagrantly, ludicrously, without apology and with full support of not only his advisors but by a broad swath of the public who knows that they’re been fed lies and nonsense and do not care even when it comes to trying to commit election fraud or pardon the very insurrectionists that he inspired to try to overturn a Congressional verification of his loss. We’ve never had a media establishment so dedicated to not only propagating known falsehoods but actually promoting the agenda and talking points of a foreign adversary in service of instituting an autocratic, fascistic regime. We’ve never experienced the kind of concerted attack against education, science, history, culture, and basic human decency across the board. This isn’t about Trump; he will leave this mortal coil (probably with his head buried in a bucket of fried chicken) but the destruction of institutions and pervasive infiltration of the people who used him to gain access to government will remain and would rather pull the temple down upon their heads than to voluntarily relinquish power.
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](#):
>
> Now, get off your asses, and attend your local government forums, and townhalls, and participate in the demonstrations against these assholes and their hate. We have work to do.
These are all good things to do in a normal state with civil rights and protections in place. But they aren’t going to stop the people behind sheltering behind the MAGA fanatics, who aren’t dipshits being humiliated by _Daily Show_ correspondents for their idiocy, from continuing to gut critical governmental institutions, scientific and technical infrastructure, education, ecological monitoring and preservation, and the integrity of law and the courts that rule upon it. They aren’t going to stop the Heritage Foundation, with the support of ‘Originalist’ justices who are now the majority of the US Supreme Court, from turning back a quarter of a millennia of progress and expansion of civil rights to all persons instead of just the landed and wealthy white men who it was intended to serve.
Attending forums and waving signs isn’t going to stop complicit and compliant Republican governors–who know exactly what they are doing and why it is wrong–from sending their militias to occupy the nation’s capitol to provide a demonstration of force for a President who would (and has) cheerfully suggested shooting protestors in the legs. It won’t stop the campaign of extrajudicial kidnapping and deportation people without even a pretense of due process regardless, with the President again happily declaring the “the homegrowns are next”, Constitution and law be damed.
This is not normal. It is not something “we’ve all seen … before”. It’s not just the ‘swing of the pendulum’ or a problem to be solved with a turn of political tides. If the United States is to survive this, it will need to change radically, not only to protect against this again, but to address the long-standing hurt and frustrations, the exploitation and rigged system, the ignorance and prejudice that has sustained and grown a fascistic movement like MAGA from a literal punchline to a major political force that has taken over and perverted one of the two major parties (and had some pretty devastating and cowing effects on the other). It would need to have a system that is actually representative of not just a mostly fabricated moderate right to far right divide but the entire spectrum of sociopolitical views. It would need to ensconce basic human rights not as an afterthought or within “the penumbra” of interpretation but in plain language written in voices that aren’t just white slaveholders or religious zealots jealously guarding their new-found authority, divvying up fractions of a vote to perpetuate decidedly inhumane institutions. It certainly needs to stop with the hallowed reverence of ‘founders’ who were actually complicated, conflicted, sometimes venal, often rancorous men who saw to their own interests ahead of actual freedom and liberty for everyone. Which is not a conversation that many people–even those who consider themselves ‘moderate’ and ‘open-minded’–want to have. Frankly, I don’t see any of the above as a likely outcome even (or perhaps especially) if there was a massive upswell of support and a ‘blue wave’ that overtakes all Republican efforts to gerrymander, subvert elections, and deny results that they don’t like.
Stranger
---
### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/51 "2025-08-22T09:01:17Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#):
>
> If the United States is to survive this, it will need to change radically, not only to protect against this again, but to address the long-standing hurt and frustrations, the exploitation and rigged system, the ignorance and prejudice that has sustained and grown a fascistic movement like MAGA from a literal punchline to a major political force that has taken over and perverted one of the two major parties (and had some pretty devastating and cowing effects on the other).
The political configuration of the US has been moving this way for more than a century. The Democratic party policy has been about rich-asshole-management-theater, while the Republican party has been essentially a bunch of plutocrats. The Republicans disguised much of their plutocratic tendencies in the post-FDR period, but Reagan departed from that to begin the “_Yay Plutocracy!_” era.
Notice that the Democrats rarely reverse major Republican policy. Most of them are owned by the wealth peerage as much as the Republicans are. There is a difference, but in practical terms, not as big of one as we would like.
> [@Odesio](#):
>
> I’ve asked the same question of my more leftist friends who have been shouting revolution since the Bush, Jr.’s administration. Get rid of capitalism? Great. What have you got lined up for us?
How about reforming capitalism so that it is not a vehicle for peerage? The Felon just had one of his judgements set aside because taking a large chunk of ridculously-wealthy (so he claims) grifter’s money amounts to cruel and unusual punishment.
The idea that a small group of people should be even allowed to amass vast wealth is the main thing that is wrong with the system. It is disproportionate reward for being good gamblers and does not really benefit anyone outside the feudocapitalist peerage.
As others have said, the Felon is just a shiny distraction for the real powerbrokers. It is not really the Republicans who are the problem, _per se_, it is the system that supports concentrating power in the hands of a small group of plutocrats and letting them run things from behind the curtain.
---
### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/52 "2025-08-22T13:22:43Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#):
>
> These people are not, apparently, deeply unhappy with Republican leadership. Why not? Is it that they are currently comfortable and don’t particularly care? Is it that they are ignorant and easily swayed to vote / stay home by sound bite, memes, and social media propaganda? Is it that this is just their culture and they’ve never thought particularly about how it could change for the better? Is it that they feel powerless to affect any change whatsoever?
> [@Odesio](#):
>
> Maybe some voters just don’t see the corruption and the lies? In which case, what the hell is wrong with them? Maybe they agree with his goals? In which case, what the hell is wrong with them?
I have mentioned this a few times before in other threads - an enormous share of the US population see the surrounding suboptimal “way of living” as just the default state of the universe that they can only bear down and try to live with as best they can. Another large share have bought in on the notion that the idealized myth of the Good Old Days **was** that default rest state, that “progress” has taken us away from that, and all it takes is to crash the system and the GODs will naturally re-emerge.
> [@Dr.Drake](#):
>
> I think other people might just be equally committed to the then-stronger straight white male Christian supremacy
Yeah, part of what makes some people incredulous is this. Y’know, while we were all marching and organizing and diversifying and including? The Other Guys were not lying down to die. They were just as committed to their belief, just knew enough to back off and keep their heads down when the tide was going against them. They kept associating with their likes building up **their** networks and teaching their children **their** ways, building their strength back up.
---
### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/53 "2025-08-22T13:48:50Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#):
>
> We have not “seen all of this MAGA shit before”. For sure, we’ve seen prejudice, racism, political corruption, exploitation, segregation, corporate cronyism, systemic persecution of minority groups, divisiveness leading to civil war, but what we’ve never had is a national party within the highest levels of government, in full control of all three branches, dismantling the administrative elements of civil governance and dismantling institutions of democratic governance with deliberate intent and concerted effort.
It seems that we did before, In the 1800s, justices were often deeply involved in political life, and their decisions sometimes reflected the partisan ideologies of their time, also it was common for presidents to get his partisans into government positions.
> **[How a Presidential Assassination Led to the End of the Spoils System | HISTORY](https://www.history.com/articles/garfield-assassination-spoils-system-reforms-federal-employees)**
>
> Before civil service reforms—introduced after President Garfield's assassination—federal employees could be fired for...
One can say though that Trump really thinks that America was great, but many get it wrong, many MAGAs think it is by going back to the 1950s, but in reality Trump and the Republicans are going back to the 1850s…
---
### Author:  [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/54 "2025-08-22T14:11:24Z")
Collapse means just that, huge disruptions to people’s lives, declining life spans, economic decline, increased violence and an “arms” race of sorts among people to look out for their own with little or no empathy for the rest of society. History has many cases of societies collapsing, so I suggest you look to those if you can’t grasp the concept.
Where I think you get stuck is on the word “better.” Obviously, better does not apply to the people in America living through the collapse.
With the Soviet Union and now the US, I think that collapse is better for humanity. Both empires have the capacity to destroy all life on earth. Given that reality, I think collapse is better for the world, not better for me personally and not better for anyone currently living in America. When empires collapse there are huge disruptions to the world order and it would absolutely be better for everyone if America were a stable democracy, but it’s not.
Since America is very far down the road to fascism and since there is absolutely no real resistance to that fact, I would rather America be a weak fascist country, than a strong fascist country. That’s not better for me, I’m a straight white man who could easily keep my head down and run out the clock, but better for humanity.
---
### Author:  [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/55 "2025-08-22T14:27:24Z")
> [@madmonk28](#):
>
> With the Soviet Union and now the US, I think that collapse is better for humanity. Both empires have the capacity to destroy all life on earth. Given that reality, I think collapse is better for the world, not better for me personally and not better for anyone currently living in America. When empires collapse there are huge disruptions to the world order and it would absolutely be better for everyone if America were a stable democracy, but it’s not.
>
> Since America is very far down the road to fascism and since there is absolutely no real resistance to that fact, I would rather America be a weak fascist country, than a strong fascist country. That’s not better for me, I’m a straight white man who could easily keep my head down and run out the clock, but better for humanity.
I’m sure you’ll enjoy an ascendant China and Russia much more after the filthy capitalist-imperialist pig-dogs of the corrupt United States are dealt with. No Fascism there at all, no sir.
---
### Author:  [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/56 "2025-08-22T14:42:02Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#):
>
> Its not so much the government collapsing as it is the American way of life changing into an unrecognizable perverted folly of its former self.
This. The MAGA members of the public have decided that they prefer Homelander to Superman, so that’s what we’re going to get.
ETA: As for those hoping for a “collapse”, I imagine the thinking is that a collapse would lead to a massive Democratic win at the polls due to the collapse in some way obviously being the fault of the Republicans. Basically something like the 1992 or 2008 election on steroids. I don’t see that happening.
---
### Author:  [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/57 "2025-08-22T15:10:43Z")
> [@Babale](#):
>
> I’m sure you’ll enjoy an ascendant China and Russia much more after the filthy capitalist-imperialist pig-dogs of the corrupt United States are dealt with
Aside from their nuclear arms, neither China nor Russia has the power projection capabilities of the US. Those within driving distance of China or Russia will have a harder time of it, but anywhere beyond that will probably be okay.
Both Russia and China have been trying to build such force projection means for a couple of decades now, but so far they’ve been unable to get even a small part of what the US has working. I don’t see that changing much any time soon, so there will be time for those other places to consider what to do about it.
As it stands, a fascist US has such power _right now_. They could land an invasion force almost anywhere in the world, if they wanted to. I can see someone thinking that trading a current risk of a fascist US for a future risk of China or Russia is a good deal in the moment.
---
### Author:  [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/58 "2025-08-22T15:12:38Z")
> [@Horatius](#):
>
> Both Russia and China have been trying to build such force projection means for a couple of decades now, but so far they’ve been unable to get even a small part of what the US has working. I don’t see that changing much any time soon, so there will be time for those other places to consider what to do about it.
…The sole global superpower wielding it’s monumental soft power to prevent them from succeeding in these efforts had nothing to do with this failure, I’m sure?
(Great job setting the infrastructure that provided us with that soft power on fire, Donald…)
---
### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/59 "2025-08-22T15:16:08Z")
ETA @Horatius two posts up.
If I was a resident of country X I’d be a lot more worried about Chinese and Russian mischief in the political or economic sphere than I would be about them sending military mischief to my country. The USA has power projection in all three realms and a fascist USA will be increasingly dangerous to Country X too.
But …Just as the Chinese and Russians have trouble making common cause with each other in most areas, I expect a fascist USA to be equally difficult for either China or Russia to make common cause with easily.
The net result from Country X’s POV is there will be three big bullies in the neighborhood, any one of which could kick your ass. But the three are so busy jostling each other and trying to force you to be their vassal, not the other guys’ vassals, that the net effect on you is turbulence, not existential crisis.
---
### Author:  [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/60 "2025-08-22T15:18:28Z")
> [@Babale](#):
>
> The sole global superpower wielding it’s monumental soft power to prevent them from succeeding in these efforts had nothing to do with this failure, I’m sure?
If you can explain how that soft power explains the ridiculously long time it’s taken China to get even a few aircraft carriers working, I’d like to hear it.
> **[Chinese aircraft carrier programme](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_aircraft_carrier_programme)**
>
> As of 2025\[update\], the Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) has two active carriers, the Liaoning and Shandong, with the third, Fujian, currently undergoing sea trials. A fourth carrier, currently called "Type 004" and featuring nuclear propulsion, has been under construction since 2024. Wang Yunfei, a retired PLA Navy officer and other naval experts projected in 2018/2019 that China might possess five or six aircraft carriers by the 2030s.
> In the years after 1985 China acquired four ...
Even with examples of other countries’ aircraft carriers to work with, it’s taken them 40 years to get to where they are, and it’s not much compared to the US capabilities.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348.md?page=2)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348.md?page=4)