# Questions for those that think that the U.S.A. will collapse...and the sooner, the better
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 21, 2025, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348 "2025-08-21T04:26:02Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/61 "2025-08-22T15:25:35Z")
> [@Babale](#):
>
> That’s far too optimistic. There’s no way all 50 states, at varying levels of economic development and military might, and with no history of being independent and lots of history of being one nation, respect each other’s sovereignty.
Actually… 15 state _do_ have a history of being independent. The original 13 colonies were first governed as independent entities, Texas was a republic and Hawaii was a kingdom.
I could see Hawaii and Texas becoming independent again. Maybe Alaska, too, given it’s unattached to the CONUS. The original 13 would probably stick together, though, possibly adding other states in the north-east. There are some logical fault-lines for a break-up.
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### Author:  [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/62 "2025-08-22T15:37:08Z")
> [@Horatius](#):
>
> Even with examples of other countries’ aircraft carriers to work with, it’s taken them 40 years to get to where they are, and it’s not much compared to the US capabilities.
Weren’t they like 80% agricultural at the start of that period? I imagine most of their effort has been spent industrializing their country, not pumping out aircraft carriers. _Today_ China is an industrial superpower, and they are indeed capable of producing their own aircraft carriers, which puts them in a very exclusive club.
But power projection isn’t just about big ships. It’s also about a network of allies and military bases across the entire globe. Thanks to its role in WWII and the Cold War, America has a massive head start there, and this is where America’s counter influence has been the most impactful. China has been making some headway regardless with stuff like the Belt and Road initiative, but that’s been limited by America already being in many of the places China wants to worm its way into.
We can see this very clearly with the inroads China has made into India in the last couple days and weeks. Trump is throwing away American influence, and China is stepping in.
Being influential in India is a much bigger prize for China than some aircraft carriers would be.
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### Author:  [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/63 "2025-08-22T15:39:48Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> Actually… 15 state _do_ have a history of being independent. The original 13 colonies were first governed as independent entities,
Well, they were independent from _each other_, but they were not _independent entities_. They were, in fact, British colonies.
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> Texas was a republic
Very briefly, no matter how proud they are of it.
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> and Hawaii was a kingdom.
This on the other hand is fair.
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> I could see Hawaii and Texas becoming independent again. Maybe Alaska, too, given it’s unattached to the CONUS. The original 13 would probably stick together, though, possibly adding other states in the north-east. There are some logical fault-lines for a break-up.
There are plenty of natural fault lines for a break up. What I highly doubt is that any break up would _last_. Revanchism would be rampant.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/64 "2025-08-22T15:48:26Z")
Sure. Someone always wants to rebuild the Roman Empire. Or the American Empire. Or the Russian Empire.
Whether or not that happens is a different question, but one I don’t have the ability to predict.
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### Author:  [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/65 "2025-08-22T16:07:14Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> Whether or not that happens is a different question, but one I don’t have the ability to predict.
Usually, it doesn’t happen, but there are many long and brutal wars trying (and failing) to _make it_ happens.
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### Author:  [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/66 "2025-08-22T16:21:56Z")
> [@Johanna](#):
>
> This reminds me of the Beatles:
>
> “But when you talk about destruction, don’t you know that you can count me out/in”
Without judging the merits of any particular calls for the collapse of the U.S., sometimes I am reminded of the lyrics
I am an antichrist
I am an anarchist
Don’t know what I want, but I know how to get it
I want to destroy…
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/67 "2025-08-22T16:41:57Z")
**Moderating:**
Attack the post, not the poster. This is not the Pit.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/68 "2025-08-22T17:58:46Z")
California was also a republic for a month or so, and Vermont for about as long as Texas.
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### Author:  [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/69 "2025-08-22T19:14:42Z")
Yes, thank you. It even says so on the state flag!
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2025, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/70 "2025-08-22T23:46:10Z")
> [@Horatius](#):
>
> If you can explain how that soft power explains the ridiculously long time it’s taken China to get even a few aircraft carriers working, I’d like to hear it.
It’s possible the Chinese have anticipated that aircraft carriers are an obsolete technology and have chosen not to sink too much capital into them.
I think it’s worth noting that the Chinese have put a good deal of capital into developing and deploying anti-carrier missile systems.
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### Author:  [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2025, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/71 "2025-08-23T01:31:18Z")
I’m afraid that what we’re seeing isn’t the swinging pendulum but rather an attempt to push the pendulum as far as it can go to the right and then nailing it into place. What’s going to happen when they _actually_ do what they accused us of doing on J6?
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2025, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/72 "2025-08-23T01:37:59Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> So what will come after? Scattered survivors in a worldwide radioactive, toxic, ecologically collapsed wasteland. _That_ is the future of humanity.
I thought the picture of the future was going to be a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
\<\< disappointed\>\>
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2025, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/73 "2025-08-23T01:40:27Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> I thought the picture of the future was going to be a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
They are too incompetent to manage that, although it’s what they _want._ Their ideal _would_ be most of humanity dead, and the rest living in an eternal totalitarian theocratic dictatorship.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2025, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/74 "2025-08-23T01:41:03Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#):
>
> We’ll have what Russia had shortly before they invaded Ukraine.
My fear is what we’ll have next is the US invading Canada. They’ll need something to distract them from the massive inflation and the collapse of the healthcare system. A nice war is typically what is used then.
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### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2025, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/75 "2025-08-23T01:47:13Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> My fear is what we’ll have next is the US invading Canada.
Mexico is first in the queue:
> **[Team Trump Is Actually Drawing Up Attack Plans for Mexico](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/team-trump-mexico-cartels-military-attack-plans-1235407875/)**
>
> Donald Trump isn’t bluffing about using the military against the cartels: He wants to breach Mexico’s sovereignty, if and when he feels like it.
Stranger
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### Author:  [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2025, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/76 "2025-08-23T02:01:34Z")
But I thought Canada was the main source of drugs into the US. Isn’t that why Trump slapped all those tariffs on Canada? So much fentanyl and other drugs and illegal immigrants coming in over the northern border?
[sarcasm off]
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### Author:  [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2025, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/77 "2025-08-23T02:05:33Z")
[Sarcasm on]
Fear not, Canada is the key to the unlocked northern riches that will abound once the climate change reveals them. Canada and your new sister state Greenland will be held high in the new empire in terms of exploitation. But only after the MAGAs reinvent history and claim they had always predicted climate change all along. So it is rewritten, so let it be done.
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### Author:  [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2025, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/78 "2025-08-23T02:47:55Z")
Adult in the room. The U.S.A. isn’t going to “collapse” anytime soon.
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### Author:  [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2025, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/79 "2025-08-23T03:01:15Z")
My understanding is that much of “Yugoslavia” is basically tribal territory, and the tribes DO NOT GET ALONG and never have.
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### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2025, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-for-those-that-think-that-the-u-s-a-will-collapse-and-the-sooner-the-better/1022348/80 "2025-08-23T03:28:08Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#):
>
> Adult in the room. The U.S.A. isn’t going to “collapse” anytime soon.
Said so many self-identified ‘adults in the room’ about the Weimar Republic circa 1930.
Stranger
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