# Questions on Birds and Bees (Mystery Raptor & Paper Wasp Nest ID)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [January 24, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842 "2009-01-24T22:29:33Z")
**Posts on this page:** 16
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842/1 "2009-01-24T22:29:33Z")
I had this large Raptor on a telephone pole in front of my house. I also saw it flying around. It is larger than a Red Tail Hawk and did not have the red tail or the right face. It looks like a Turkey Buzzard and is about the same size but it had a short neck more like an Eagle or Hawk and a fully feathered head. In flight it appeared dark underneath.
The face looks like a turkey buzzard but the short neck is throwing me off.
[Mystery Raptor on Tphone Pole](http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b127/jrfranchi/P1050003.jpg) [Mystery Raptor on Tphone Pole 2](http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b127/jrfranchi/P1050001.jpg)
Does anybody know what this majestic looking bird was?
Next question, I was getting some wood from my wood pile and looked up and saw this possible [paper wasp nest.](http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b127/jrfranchi/P1050008.jpg) Do you think I have correctly identified it.
Thank you in advance,
Jim
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### Author:  [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842/2 "2009-01-24T22:38:55Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#):
>
> I had this large Raptor on a telephone pole in front of my house. I also saw it flying around. It is larger than a Red Tail Hawk and did not have the red tail or the right face. It looks like a Turkey Buzzard and is about the same size but it had a short neck more like an Eagle or Hawk and a fully feathered head. In flight it appeared dark underneath.
>
> The face looks like a turkey buzzard but the short neck is throwing me off.
> [Mystery Raptor on Tphone Pole](http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b127/jrfranchi/P1050003.jpg) [Mystery Raptor on Tphone Pole 2](http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b127/jrfranchi/P1050001.jpg)
>
> Does anybody know what this majestic looking bird was?
> Next question, I was getting some wood from my wood pile and looked up and saw this possible [paper wasp nest.](http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b127/jrfranchi/P1050008.jpg) Do you think I have correctly identified it.
>
> Thank you in advance,
> Jim
Don’t know the bird, but the nest is a bald-faced hornet’s.
ETA: maybe a [Common Black Hawk](http://www.birdsoftt.com/images/common_black_hawk.jpg)?
---
### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842/3 "2009-01-24T23:06:29Z")
> [@beowulff](#):
>
> Don’t know the bird, but the nest is a bald-faced hornet’s.
>
> ETA: maybe a [Common Black Hawk](http://www.birdsoftt.com/images/common_black_hawk.jpg)?
Do you know if bald-faced hornets are a beneficial or dangerous insect to have around?
It looks like it is not the Common Black Hawk as the range is wrong. I am in New Jersey and the beak was not black but had the bit of red like Turkey Buzzards.
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### Author:  [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842/4 "2009-01-24T23:15:46Z")
It looks like a Turkey Vulture to me. An image search shows some pics of TV’s with less bald heads, like this [one](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.lakesidenaturecenter.org/images/AC_Turkey%2520Vulture%2520Head%2520Shot%2520from%2520MDC.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.lakesidenaturecenter.org/AC_Turkey%2520Vulture.html&usg=__NEXe0V4TqR9TO580xMBaLVrp0_E=&h=344&w=305&sz=22&hl=en&start=16&um=1&tbnid=2uQEF-VRW8xhbM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=106&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dturkey%2Bvulture%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN). Perhaps it’s a younger bird that hasn’t developed the full bald head or they grow more feathers on their heads in the winter?
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### Author:  [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842/5 "2009-01-24T23:23:23Z")
I’m pretty sure your bird is a turkey vulture–that beak is pretty distinctive. I think the head looks fully-feathered because of your angle of view. Does the bird seem a bit unsteady in flight? If it rocks and tilts as it flies, it’s definitely a turkey vulture.
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### Author:  [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842/6 "2009-01-24T23:34:12Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#):
>
> Do you know if bald-faced hornets are a beneficial or dangerous insect to have around?
> It looks like it is not the Common Black Hawk as the range is wrong. I am in New Jersey and the beak was not black but had the bit of red like Turkey Buzzards.
Well, the hornets are predacious on some pest insect species, which is a good thing, but they also sting like a mofo if disturbed, which is bad.
So, it’s your call…
I don’t think I’d like a big nest in my backyard, but 100’ away would be OK.
---
### Author:  [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842/7 "2009-01-24T23:37:42Z")
I, too, was reminded by the pictures of a T.V. In case you see it in flight, another distinctive characteristic is that these birds usually fly with a pronounced dihedral (wings in a V).
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [January 24, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842/8 "2009-01-24T23:49:01Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#):
>
> It looks like a Turkey Vulture to me. An image search shows some pics of TV’s with less bald heads, like this [one](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.lakesidenaturecenter.org/images/AC_Turkey%2520Vulture%2520Head%2520Shot%2520from%2520MDC.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.lakesidenaturecenter.org/AC_Turkey%2520Vulture.html&usg=__NEXe0V4TqR9TO580xMBaLVrp0_E=&h=344&w=305&sz=22&hl=en&start=16&um=1&tbnid=2uQEF-VRW8xhbM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=106&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dturkey%2Bvulture%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN). Perhaps it’s a younger bird that hasn’t developed the full bald head or they grow more feathers on their heads in the winter?
That image looks like a good match. The short neck was throwing me off, but the pictures you found look dead on except the under feathers in flight looked dark. Could just be an odd variant. We see a lot of Turkey Buzzards around here but the necks are always longer and heads always bald looking. This one did not look ugly enough to be a Turkey Buzzard.
> [@blondebear](#):
>
> I’m pretty sure your bird is a turkey vulture–that beak is pretty distinctive. I think the head looks fully-feathered because of your angle of view. Does the bird seem a bit unsteady in flight? If it rocks and tilts as it flies, it’s definitely a turkey vulture.
I’ll keep an eye on the flight pattern\* if it returns but despite not being able to get good pictures I got a fairly good look at the head over a two day period and the head was feathered and fluffy like the picture **Wile E** found.
> [@beowulff](#):
>
> Well, the hornets are predacious on some pest insect species, which is a good thing, but they also sting like a mofo if disturbed, which is bad.
>
> So, it’s your call…
>
> I don’t think I’d like a big nest in my backyard, but 100’ away would be OK.
The nest is a good 100’ behind the house and I am generally the only one to use the wood pile and only in the cold months. I think I leave it be.
> [@Xema](#):
>
> I, too, was reminded by the pictures of a T.V. In case you see it in flight, another distinctive characteristic is that these birds usually fly with a pronounced dihedral (wings in a V).
- In flight I recall it looking like a larger version of a Red Tail Hawk flying. My recollection might be off though.
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### Author:  [@freckafree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freckafree)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842/9 "2009-01-25T00:12:20Z")
The wasp nest is, I’m pretty sure, a [bald-faced hornet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bald-faced_hornet) nest. (And bald-faced hornets are actually a kind of wasp.)
They do not overwinter. The queen seeks shelter underground before the weather freezes. The workers all die. In all likelihood, the nest will disintegrate over the winter.
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### Author:  [@freckafree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freckafree)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842/10 "2009-01-25T00:36:14Z")
Missed the edit window while trying to add that I missed \*\*beowulff’\*\*s ID in post #2.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842/11 "2009-01-25T01:24:04Z")
Definitely a Turkey Vulture. They can pull feathers up from the lower neck by tightening the neck and head skin when it’s cold.
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### Author:  [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2009, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842/12 "2009-01-25T11:48:36Z")
Whatever you do, don’t try to remove the hornets nest yourself. Just don’t.
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842/13 "2009-01-25T14:46:13Z")
> [@Colibri](#):
>
> Definitely a Turkey Vulture. They can pull feathers up from the lower neck by tightening the neck and head skin when it’s cold.
That makes sense. Thank you.
Any thoughts on why the wings appeared dark underneath while it was flying? I am guessing either an odd variant or just shadows on a cloudy day.
> [@Zoe](#):
>
> Whatever you do, don’t try to remove the hornets nest yourself. Just don’t.
Thank you, I won’t. I was planning to leave it anyway.
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### Author:  [@Moonshiner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonshiner)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842/14 "2009-01-25T19:38:57Z")
It could be a [Black Vulture](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Black_Vulture). A birder cow-orker of mine mentioned that they are expanding their range northward these days.
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### Author:  [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842/15 "2009-01-25T22:28:22Z")
> [@Moonshiner](#):
>
> It could be a [Black Vulture](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Black_Vulture).
Unlikely, IMO. The OP’s photos show a red cere and a tail longer than would be right for a B.V.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [January 25, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/questions-on-birds-and-bees-mystery-raptor-paper-wasp-nest-id/482842/16 "2009-01-25T22:37:19Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#):
>
> Any thoughts on why the wings appeared dark underneath while it was flying? I am guessing either an odd variant or just shadows on a cloudy day.
No, not really, unless it was some odd lighting. Turkey Vultures usually do show two-toned wings in flight, with the flight feathers paler than the wing coverts.
> [@Moonshiner](#):
>
> It could be a [Black Vulture](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Black_Vulture). A birder cow-orker of mine mentioned that they are expanding their range northward these days.
As **Xema** has explained, the bird in the photo is without question a Turkey Vulture due to the red on the bill. Black Vultures are, however, moving their range north.
Young Turkey Vultures have dark heads, and are best told from Black Vultures by their browner plumage and different size and proportions.