# Quick constitutional succession question... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 24, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236 "2008-11-24T12:30:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/1 "2008-11-24T12:30:07Z")
If a job is listed as part of the constitutional succession, is it legally possible of someone who is presidentially ineligible to hold one of those positions? Or is this a simple ‘no?’ Could, for the sake of a hypothesis, Bill Clinton be made secretary of transportation, or Arnold S. secretary of Homeland Security? Is there is distance down the line of succession where it would be accepted as ‘okay’ to have an ineligible person, as the potential for them needing to take over the presidency becomes exceedingly slim? Or is there a legal way that they could hold such a position with an ‘exception clause’ rendering them ineligible to take over in the event of such a catastrophe? If it is possible, what is the highest position ever held by an ineligible person? Senate pro tempore would probably be most likely, but, is this the case? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/2 "2008-11-24T12:33:18Z")
Not American and no expert, but from previous threads my understanding was that there was no problem in holding one of the positions - the succession just jumps over the inelligable person. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/3 "2008-11-24T12:34:28Z")
Yes, such a person can hold a position that’s in line of succession. They are simply ineligible, should disaster occur, to move up. I believe the current Secretary of Labor, Elaine Chao, fits this description right now being born in China of Chinese parents. As for the highest position that’s a tricky one. My instinct is with yours that it’s some President Pro Tempore or Speaker of the House, but that’s data that might take a while to find. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/4 "2008-11-24T12:36:40Z")
Madeleine Albright was born in Czechoslovakia, and therefore ineligible for the Presidency, and served as Secretary of State which is 4th in the line of succession. Apparently, at least according to Wikipedia, she was also excluded from the nuclear contingency plans too due to her ineligibility as a successor. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/5 "2008-11-24T12:37:41Z")
Mmm. Kissinger, too, as I recall. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/6 "2008-11-24T12:43:41Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Mmm. Kissinger, too, as I recall. Yeah, he was born in Germany to German parents. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/7 "2008-11-24T12:47:24Z")
So we’ve got it to the #4 slot, the SecState. To go above that we’d need someone in the Congressional leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/8 "2008-11-24T12:53:06Z")
Aha! David B Henderson, Speaker of the House 1899-1903, apparently was foreign born and therefore ineligible to hold the office of the Presidency. Not as solid as I’d like and might not be the only one. [http://wapedia.mobi/en/David\_B.\_Henderson](http://wapedia.mobi/en/David_B._Henderson) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/9 "2008-11-24T12:56:46Z")
> [@Aro](#): > > Could, for the sake of a hypothesis, Bill Clinton be made secretary of transportation.. Not to start this argument yet again, but the constitution merely states that Bill Clinton is ineligible to be “elected” President again. If he ascends to the presidency by other means, the constitution is silent.. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/10 "2008-11-24T13:41:15Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Not to start this argument yet again, but the constitution merely states that Bill Clinton is ineligible to be “elected” President again. If he ascends to the presidency by other means, the constitution is silent.. I’m not familiar with the previous arguments / discussions on this point, but would the 22nd amendment not render this mute? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/11 "2008-11-24T13:47:42Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > Madeleine Albright was born in Czechoslovakia, and therefore ineligible for the Presidency, and served as Secretary of State which is 4th in the line of succession. Fifth: President, VP, Speaker, President pro tem of the Senate, and then Secretary of State. Since there is no “natural born” citizenship requirement for congress, there could be a speaker or president pro tem of the senate who was not be eligible to be president. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/12 "2008-11-24T14:05:21Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Fifth: President, VP, Speaker, President pro tem of the Senate, and then Secretary of State. I don’t think Lines of Succession traditionally include the incumbent, so fourth. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/13 "2008-11-24T15:11:30Z")
> [@Aro](#): > > I’m not familiar with the previous arguments / discussions on this point, but would the 22nd amendment not render this mute? Do you mean “mute,” as in silent, unspeaking? Or “moot,” is in obsolete, deprived of practical significance? **jtgain** point is neither. His point is that the Twenty-Second Amendment says: > [@](#): > > No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. Since it’s only _election_ that’s forbidden, a two-term President that runs for a House seat following his tenure as President, wins, and then becomes Speaker of the House would not be “elected” to the office of President if some disaster were to then befall the sitting President and VP simultaneously. He’d be assuming the office through means other than election, and thus not forbidden by the Twenty-Second Amendment (or, indeed, any other part of the Constitution). So since the Constitution is, by this argument, silent on the issue, maybe you _did_ mean “mute.” ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/14 "2008-11-24T15:36:23Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > Madeleine Albright was born in Czechoslovakia, and therefore ineligible for the Presidency, and served as Secretary of State which is 4th in the line of succession. [nitpick]Albright was not excluded because she was born in Czechoslovakia, but because she did not acquire American citizenship by birth (i.e., she was born abroad to non-American parents). I’m sure there are at least a few people who were born in Czechoslovakia who are eligible for the American presidency.[/nitpick] ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/15 "2008-11-24T16:22:05Z")
Can a VP be ineligible (constitutionally) to be President but ok for the VP slot? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/16 "2008-11-24T16:27:02Z")
Only the President and Vice President have to be eligible to be President. Anyone after that can still hold the main office but is ineligible to become President. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/17 "2008-11-24T16:29:33Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Can a VP be ineligible (constitutionally) to be President but ok for the VP slot? No. The last sentence of the 22d Amendment reads as follows: > [@U.S. Constitution](#): > > But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/18 "2008-11-24T16:29:40Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Can a VP be ineligible (constitutionally) to be President but ok for the VP slot? Nope: > [@12th Amendment](#): > > The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. **But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.** ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/19 "2008-11-24T16:32:30Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > No. The last sentence of the 22d Amendment reads as follows: You’re ten Amendments and about 150 years off. 😛 But the 22nd also deals with presidential stuff (term limits). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236/20 "2008-11-24T18:53:03Z")
Then again, by the argument above about Bill Clinton as Speaker of the House, he’s not ineligible to _be_ president, just to be _elected_ president. So if you take an overly-literal nitpicky reading of the Constitution, Bill Clinton could in fact be Veep. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-constitutional-succession-question/474236.md?page=2)