# Quick DS9 question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2017, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-ds9-question/785942 "2017-05-05T19:12:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-ds9-question/785942/21 "2017-05-06T13:23:03Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Sir, you forget \*The City on the Edge of Forever. \* It’s madam to you, and we must agree to disagree. “Computer. Delete entire entry.” Gives me chills every damn time. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-ds9-question/785942/22 "2017-05-06T16:28:17Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > DS9 mostly plays the time travel episodes for the adventure or drama, or comedy, not for mind-bending paradox. I don’t believe any of them involve a paradox, although it’s an arguable possibility in a couple occasions. More like the DS9 characters venture into the past and end up being involved in something significant. They’re all about the characters. I’d have to run down the list so far, but I just watched “Children of Time,” which is about as tight a time-paradox story as can be written, leaving the crew of the _Defiant_ with two utterly unpleasant alternatives. I seem to recall one or two others with similar themes in earlier seasons. It’s a good show, mostly. Not up to B5 by any means, but good. And maybe it’s the repetition of “alternate world in someone’s mind” stories that bugs me more than the time-bending ones. The idea of O’Brien serving a 20-year prison sentence entirely in implanted memories was pretty chilling and original, though. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-ds9-question/785942/23 "2017-05-06T19:53:04Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > The idea of O’Brien serving a 20-year prison sentence entirely in implanted memories was pretty chilling and original, though. O’Brien became an interesting major character on DS9. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-ds9-question/785942/24 "2017-05-06T21:37:07Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I’d have to run down the list so far, but I just watched “Children of Time,” which is about as tight a time-paradox story as can be written, leaving the crew of the _Defiant_ with two utterly unpleasant alternatives. I seem to recall one or two others with similar themes in earlier seasons. Not really as paradoxes, though. In DS9, all times travel stories are not used to explore the science fiction aspects, but are entirely character-focused pieces and used to explore that dimension. This is really a turnaround from other Star Trek stories, where time travel was really some kind of problem that had to be fixed, something used to explore the idea of time travel itself. It’s a subtle change, but one that is pretty noticeable if you compare the big time-travel stories from TNG to DS9. And I enjoy them both quite a bit! They’re good in different ways. Take _Children of Time_. It’s a paradox (well, not exactly; it’s two possible self- consistent time loops but neither is actually paradoxical) - but the story has very little to do with the paradox itself. The story is about the choices people make and why they make them; what people care enough about to fight for, or die for. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > O’Brien became an interesting major character on DS9. I don’t agree exactly: he was a minor character, but an interesting one, in TNG. He didn’t often receive a close focus, but was pretty fun when he did. _The Wounded_ is one of my favorite stories and it just wouldn’t work without him. His quiet portrayal as someone scarred by war in a way that never entirely goes away rang true to me, because I know people who were changed similarly. It didn’t make them supervillains or heroes or really different, but it was an indelible experience that they never entirely left in the past. It also would not have worked half so well if we hadn’t seen him as a happy, genial man about to get married in _Data’s Day_. It is certainly true that he really came into his own when he he became a main cast member on DS9, though. ---
**Author:** ![Helena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@Helena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-ds9-question/785942/25 "2017-05-07T02:45:29Z")
The Incomparable podcast recently did [an episode where they picked favorite Trek episodes.](https://www.theincomparable.com/theincomparable/347/) It’s a fun listen. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-ds9-question/785942/26 "2017-05-07T12:58:58Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > There were some painfully bad early episodes. But other than the repeated returns to the two trope stories I mention, it’s been “just okay” to “excellent” across the five first seasons. Two or three are among the very best TV sf I’ve seen. Oddly, they all seem to focus on Kira, and give her the final shot. “Duet” is quite possibly one of my favorite Star Trek episodes ever. ---
**Author:** ![johnspartan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@johnspartan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnspartan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-ds9-question/785942/27 "2017-05-08T16:20:23Z")
Of TNG, DS9 and Voyager, I feel like DS9 was the least likely to have the answer lie in decoupling the Heisenberg ferambulator. It wasn’t a big reverse the polarity kind of show. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-ds9-question/785942/28 "2017-05-08T19:31:36Z")
DS9 was a good show in part because it had such a large stable of re-occuring characters who weren’t in the main cast, but still got their own extended character arcs that spanned multiple seasons. Hell, they even gave Morn his own episode. It really made DS9 feel like a real place in a real universe. Admittedly I don’t have a particularly encyclopedic knowledge of TV, but I can’t really think of another show that does the same thing to the same extent. Most re-occuring characters in other shows serve as single season arc, usually as villains, or just make occasional appearances to move the plot along as an advisor or foil to the main-cast. Or with more recent TV shows where there’s a multi-season arc, are there to serve a roll in the main plot. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-ds9-question/785942/29 "2017-05-08T20:26:55Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Hell, they even gave Morn his own episode. They had to. He never shut up about it. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-ds9-question/785942/30 "2017-05-08T20:52:14Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > _In the Pale Moonlight_ is the best episode of all the Treks, ever. > > I liked it because it was gritty. There were no saints. Sinners could be heroes and heroes had their flaws. The arcs toward the end of the series were excellent. I will concede that _In the Pale Moonlight_ is an amazingly powerful episode, and almost certainly the best episode of DS9. However, IMHO the very best Trek episode from all the treks was _The Inner Light_ from TNG, no contest. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-ds9-question/785942/31 "2017-05-08T20:54:14Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > I will concede that _In the Pale Moonlight_ is an amazingly powerful episode, and almost certainly the best episode of DS9. However, IMHO the very best Trek episode from all the treks was _The Inner Light_ from TNG, no contest. See, that one didn’t do much for me. I know everyone raves about that episode, but for me it wasn’t a big standout. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-ds9-question/785942/32 "2017-05-08T21:03:04Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > I will concede that _In the Pale Moonlight_ is an amazingly powerful episode, and almost certainly the best episode of DS9. However, IMHO the very best Trek episode from all the treks was _The Inner Light_ from TNG, no contest. I agree. The fact that he lives at least 25 years in that other life, then has to return to living his prior life, as if none of that other life is real, for me gave me chills. The simplicity of representing that with the flute melody at the end was genius. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-ds9-question/785942.md?page=1)