# Quick Grammar Help **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 13, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570 "2012-09-13T03:15:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JpnDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@JpnDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JpnDude)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/1 "2012-09-13T03:15:54Z")
In the second sentence, is it correct apostrophe usage? > [@](#): > > San Francisco is famous for its cable cars. > > San **Francisco’s** famous for its cable cars. If not, what’s the grammar rule regarding that and provide a cite (link)? I might need it to convince the publishers if it is incorrect. Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/2 "2012-09-13T03:22:01Z")
It is a correct usage. The 's is a contraction for “is.” However some publishers may have a style that doesn’t want them. I was always told not to use contractions in formal writing, except in direct quotes, but I did learn long ago. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/3 "2012-09-13T03:30:56Z")
Not only are both sentences correct, but you’ve used the proper spelling of “its” in this application! ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/4 "2012-09-13T03:47:43Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/5 "2012-09-13T03:50:52Z")
Pro writer here. It’s correct, but I don’t see any reason why the second sentence is preferable unless it’s dialog. The first just has better rhythm. I agree that avoiding contractions in your basic article, even if it’s not really “formal” writing, is probably a good idea. It just depends on the one you’re going for and the style manual of the pub. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![JpnDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@JpnDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JpnDude)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/6 "2012-09-13T04:08:03Z")
Thanks a lot everyone for the input. I’m helping to edit an English-language study book for Japanese children. This sentence pattern came up in a speaking exercise. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/7 "2012-09-13T05:03:21Z")
> [@JpnDude](#): > > Thanks a lot everyone for the input. I’m helping to edit an English-language study book for Japanese children. This sentence pattern came up in a speaking exercise. Gambatte! ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/8 "2012-09-13T05:32:58Z")
> [@JpnDude](#): > > Thanks a lot everyone for the input. I’m helping to edit an English-language study book for Japanese children. This sentence pattern came up in a speaking exercise. In this case I would especially avoid unnecessary contractions. They can be confusing for those learning English, whether it’s a second language or not. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7feea3/32.png) [@Old\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Old_Red)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/9 "2012-09-13T11:32:27Z")
San Francisco is famous for its cable cars and San **Francisco’s** famous for its cable cars are not the same thing. The apostrophe in San Francisco’s implies something that belongs to San Francisco. It does not mean ‘it’s’ or ‘it is’. Therefore, ‘San Francisco’s famous cable cars’ would be correct but ‘San Francisco’s famous for its cable cars’ is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/10 "2012-09-13T11:48:55Z")
> [@Old\_Red](#): > > San Francisco is famous for its cable cars and San **Francisco’s** famous for its cable cars are not the same thing. The apostrophe in San Francisco’s implies something that belongs to San Francisco. It does not mean ‘it’s’ or ‘it is’. Therefore, ‘San Francisco’s famous cable cars’ would be correct but ‘San Francisco’s famous for its cable cars’ is nonsense. Just to clarify, no one said that the apostrophe-s stood for “it is” but rather that it stood for “is.” Have you heard of the the children’s book [_Where’s Waldo_?](http://www.findwaldo.com/) Or do you remember Ed McMahon proclaiming [“Here’s Johnny!”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOJL0EreRu8)? Or you wouldn’t say: \*Where’s Bob? Bob’s out back cutting wood. How’s Bob? Bob’s feeling much better since the operation. \* Using apostrophe-s to stand for “is” is a very common usage in English. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/11 "2012-09-13T13:01:44Z")
And it’s grammar, with an ‘a’. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/12 "2012-09-13T13:01:49Z")
> [@Old\_Red](#): > > San Francisco is famous for its cable cars and San **Francisco’s** famous for its cable cars are not the same thing. The apostrophe in San Francisco’s implies something that belongs to San Francisco. It does not mean ‘it’s’ or ‘it is’. Therefore, ‘San Francisco’s famous cable cars’ would be correct but ‘San Francisco’s famous for its cable cars’ is nonsense. Sorry, but this is total rubbish. Read **OldGuy’s** answer above. Besides: it’s gramm **a** r. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/13 "2012-09-13T14:18:01Z")
> [@Old\_Red](#): > > San Francisco is famous for its cable cars and San **Francisco’s** famous for its cable cars are not the same thing. The apostrophe in San Francisco’s implies something that belongs to San Francisco. It does not mean ‘it’s’ or ‘it is’. Therefore, ‘San Francisco’s famous cable cars’ would be correct but ‘San Francisco’s famous for its cable cars’ is nonsense. Sorry but no. 's has more than one meaning, and as has been said by every other responder, using it as a contraction for “San Francisco is” is grammatically correct. It’s not common usage, but that’s one of those things which fall under “why?” “because”. As far as I can tell, in general “Townname is” doesn’t get contracted to “Townname’s”, but it _is_ grammatically correct. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/14 "2012-09-13T14:29:44Z")
> [@SeaDragonTattoo](#): > > In this case I would especially avoid unnecessary contractions. They can be confusing for those learning English, whether it’s a second language or not. I disagree. If they are learning English to be used in conversation, they had better learn both forms. The contracted form is probably more common in conversation, although not in writing, at least formal writing. One of the hardest things in learning French is getting used to the contractions: “Q’est-ce que c’est que ça” eight words, five syllables. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/15 "2012-09-13T14:30:50Z")
> [@Old\_Red](#): > > San Francisco is famous for its cable cars and San **Francisco’s** famous for its cable cars are not the same thing. The apostrophe in San Francisco’s implies something that belongs to San Francisco. It does not mean ‘it’s’ or ‘it is’. Therefore, ‘San Francisco’s famous cable cars’ would be correct but ‘San Francisco’s famous for its cable cars’ is nonsense. Nonsense! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/16 "2012-09-13T15:40:23Z")
> [@Old\_Red](#): > > San Francisco is famous for its cable cars and San **Francisco’s** famous for its cable cars are not the same thing. The apostrophe in San Francisco’s implies something that belongs to San Francisco. It does not mean ‘it’s’ or ‘it is’. Therefore, ‘San Francisco’s famous cable cars’ would be correct but ‘San Francisco’s famous for its cable cars’ is nonsense. To join the chorus, ANY noun can be made into a contraction with an apostrophe-s. In those cases, the apostrophe-s usually means “is” or “has.” Both sentences in the OP are unambiguously correct. The only difference is the tone. The first sentence is standard, formal writing and speaking. The second sentence has a colloquial, less formal tone to it. That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![sundog66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@sundog66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sundog66)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/17 "2012-09-15T04:57:27Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That’s it. Sorry, but the apostrophe in _That’s_ implies something that belongs to _That_. It does not mean _it’s_ or _it is_. Therefore, _That’s it_ would be correct if you want to say that _it_ belongs to _That_ but _That’s it_ (as a stand-alone sentence) is nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/18 "2012-09-15T05:50:42Z")
> [@sundog66](#): > > Sorry, but the apostrophe in _That’s_ implies something that belongs to _That_. It does not mean _it’s_ or _it is_. Therefore, _That’s it_ would be correct if you want to say that _it_ belongs to _That_ but _That’s it_ (as a stand-alone sentence) is nonsense. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Two-Bit\_hoarder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b3f665/32.png) [@Two-Bit\_hoarder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two-Bit_hoarder)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/19 "2012-09-16T04:32:42Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > Not only are both sentences correct, but you’ve used the proper spelling of “its” in this application! > ~VOW I was impressed with that, too! ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570/20 "2012-09-17T19:02:06Z")
> [@sundog66](#): > > Sorry, but the apostrophe in _That’s_ implies something that belongs to _That_. It does not mean _it’s_ or _it is_. Therefore, _That’s it_ would be correct if you want to say that _it_ belongs to _That_ but _That’s it_ (as a stand-alone sentence) is nonsense. Are you serious? Any native English speaker is overwhelmingly familiar with _that’s_ as a contraction for _that is.__It’s_ and _it is_ have nothing to do with this, and I have to wonder why you even mentioned them. “That’s it” simply means “that is it.” It’s perfectly correct and quite common. Other examples of this use of _that’s_ include “that’s the ticket,” “that what he said,” and “that’s the way I like it.” The apostrophe in _that’s_ most certainly does **NOT** represent possession/belonging in this context and it’s absolutely ludicrous to assert that it does. What have you been smoking, dude? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-help/634570.md?page=2)