# Quick Grammar Question: Comma inbetween author's name and book title? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 13, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084 "2004-10-13T21:29:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/1 "2004-10-13T21:29:49Z")
When referencing a book in a written paper, do I place a commas after the author’s name and before the book title? For instance, here’s the passage the question arose from: “It is with these conventions that Bevin Alexander’s How Wars Are Won, a book which discusses the nature of war, demonstrates the effectiveness of these conventions.” So should it look like that, or like this: “It is with these conventions that Bevin Alexander’s\*\*,\*\* How Wars Are Won, a book which discusses the nature of war, demonstrates the effectiveness of these conventions.” ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/2 "2004-10-13T21:32:31Z")
I’ve never known of a place where you’d use a comma between a posessive and the noun, and this is no exception. You should definitely use the first one. Also, use italics for book titles instead of underlines. Underlines are for people with typewriters. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/3 "2004-10-13T21:38:10Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Also, use italics for book titles instead of underlines. Underlines are for people with typewriters. 🆒 I thought so, but my english teacher said either was fine, so neener-neerner 😉 Yeah, I’ll go with the italics. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/4 "2004-10-13T21:42:39Z")
Ok, one more (Note the comma after “Citation”): “Had the passage lacked this citation readers would be unsure of who exactly “school of thought” refers to and would likely be less receptive of the author’s perspective.” Or “Had the passage lacked this citation, readers would be unsure of who exactly “school of thought” refers to and would likely be less receptive of the author’s perspective.” I’m fairly positive the former is correct, but after yesterday’s lesson, I’m seriously questioning all knowledge I have regarding commas. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/5 "2004-10-13T22:07:16Z")
No comma there. You may be confusing this with the rule that puts the author’s name, usually but not always preceded by _by_, within commas after the title, by way of abbreviated citation. Certainly one never needs to say, “_War and Peace_, by Count Leo Tolstoy, is deemed one of the classic Russian novels” – but “_Scandinavian Myth and Toponymy_, by Otto Jespersen, is a classic in its field” provides useful information about the cited volume. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/6 "2004-10-13T22:12:29Z")
As a general rule [comma here if you are so inclined] when the sentence requires a pause [comma here if you are so inclined] a comma should be used. In your example [comma here if so inclined] you have an introductory clause which [“that” here if you are so inclined] normally requires a comma. Personally [comma here if so inclined] I would be inclined to use the comma [comma here if so inclined] if nothing else but to avoid confusion; moreover, there is a natural pause after “citation.” Without the comma [comma here if you are so inclined] one may have to reread the sentence to get the correct meaning. Having said that [comma here if so inclined] modern usage seems to eliminate commas in these situations. You cannot go wrong using the comma. With words like “however” and “moreover” (note above paragraph) [comma here if so inclined] a comma must be used following the word and a semicolon before the word (or a new sentence used) in most cases. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/7 "2004-10-13T22:18:40Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > No comma there. You may be confusing this with the rule that puts the author’s name, usually but not always preceded by _by_, within commas after the title, by way of abbreviated citation. Certainly one never needs to say, “_War and Peace_, by Count Leo Tolstoy, is deemed one of the classic Russian novels” – but “_Scandinavian Myth and Toponymy_, by Otto Jespersen, is a classic in its field” provides useful information about the cited volume. I think commas are correct in both situations, unless different authors have used the same title, which not only is unlikely but probably illegal, unless the copyright expired. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/8 "2004-10-13T22:19:57Z")
Oops! Technically, not illegal, but it would be a basis for a lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/9 "2004-10-13T22:43:07Z")
> [@Duderdude2](#): > > I thought so, but my english teacher said either was fine, so neener-neerner 😉 Well, I’d take issue with your teacher, because the second one is clearly incorrect. I mean, you wouldn’t say “I’ve heard that Pete’s, cat, is sick.” Would you? There’s no reason to separate the book title from the possessive, either. It makes no sense to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/10 "2004-10-13T22:57:10Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Well, I’d take issue with your teacher, because the second one is clearly incorrect. > I mean, you wouldn’t say “I’ve heard that Pete’s, cat, is sick.” Would you? There’s no reason to separate the book title from the possessive, either. It makes no sense to do so. No, I was speaking in regards to using either an underline or italics for a title. Sorry for the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/11 "2004-10-13T23:21:52Z")
> [@Duderdude2](#): > > Ok, one more (Note the comma after “Citation”): > > “Had the passage lacked this citation readers would be unsure of who exactly “school of thought” refers to and would likely be less receptive of the author’s perspective.” > > Or > > “Had the passage lacked this citation, readers would be unsure of who exactly “school of thought” refers to and would likely be less receptive of the author’s perspective.” > > I’m fairly positive the former is correct, but after yesterday’s lesson, I’m seriously questioning all knowledge I have regarding commas. The lack of a comma in your first example causes the person reading the sentence to stop for a moment, and think, “What are 'citation readers?” It needs the comma to give the reader a necessary clue about where that introductory clause ends. (And BTW, it’s “receptive to,” not “receptive of.”) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/12 "2004-10-14T02:26:57Z")
Sorry for the confusion. My comment was relative to the OP – suggesting that no comma was appropriate after the author’s name in the usage “Fred Writer’s _History of Elbonia_” – I would most definitely use a comma after “citation” in **Duderdude** ’s follow-up question, for clarity’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/13 "2004-10-14T03:11:04Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > I think commas are correct in both situations, unless different authors have used the same title, which not only is unlikely but probably illegal, unless the copyright expired. Not illegal or a basis for a lawsuit, unless the title was trademarked, which is relatively rare. Titles cannot be copyrighted. [Cite.](http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#wnp) There are plenty of books with the same title. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/14 "2004-10-14T03:13:58Z")
Oh, and while I’m being a smart-ass know-it-all, the OP is a question of punctuation, not grammar. **commasense** , professional editor. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/15 "2004-10-14T04:05:55Z")
> [@Duderdude2](#): > > No, I was speaking in regards to using either an underline or italics for a title. Sorry for the confusion. :smack: That’s what I get for skimming the quote. Anyhow, in this day and age, italics are preferred. Underlined titles (on typewritten pages) would get turned into italics when typeset, anyway. Underlining is a typewriter convention (as has been mentioned.) ---
**Author:** ![Duderdude2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cdc98d/32.png) [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/16 "2004-10-14T17:46:09Z")
> [@Early Out](#): > > (And BTW, it’s “receptive to,” not “receptive of.”) Really? That just sounds odd to me…but if you say so. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-grammar-question-comma-inbetween-authors-name-and-book-title/269084/17 "2004-10-14T19:34:49Z")
> [@Duderdude2](#): > > > [@Early Out](#): > > > > (And BTW, it’s “receptive to,” not “receptive of.”) > > Really? That just sounds odd to me…but if you say so. I say so, too. (And why the hell didn’t _I_ catch that?)