# Quick question for Christians **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 31, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472 "2009-03-31T18:11:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/21 "2009-04-01T14:55:24Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I’m a well-behaved atheist. > > Various Christians have told me that when I die: > > […] > > - I’ll go to prison > […] 😕 This is a new one to me. Would you get time off for good behavior? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/22 "2009-04-01T14:58:54Z")
A man dies and goes to Heaven. He’s led on the grand tour by St. Peter. He notices a large group of people studying the Torah and animatedly discussing it among themselves. St. Peter says, “Those are the Jews…they love to argue about what the Big Guy actually said.” The man then notices a group of people standing around talking to each other, coffee urns and bottles of brandy on the side tables. “Those are the Episcopalians,” St. Peter tells him. The next group is having a huge feast, Italian pasta, Polish sausage, French Canadian poutine on the tables. St. Peter says, “Catholics. Best potluck dinners in Heaven.” Then they come to a big, 20’ fence, with a sign on the gate: “Quiet!” The man whispers to St. Peter, “Who’s in there?” St. Peter whispers back, “The Baptists. Keep your voice down. They think they’re the only ones here.” ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/23 "2009-04-01T15:06:13Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Quell](#): > > I know, without any doubt, that I am going to Heaven and I know people who, without doubt, know they are going to Heaven. Learn children, that’s what Pride looks like 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/24 "2009-04-01T15:21:00Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Learn children, that’s what Pride looks like 😉 It’s an amazingly hubristic remark, but it’s not unique to **Lacunae Quell**. It’s critical to some branches of Protestantism and particular to the kinds that left England for America. That aside, as long as anybody believes in heaven there are going to be people who are _positive_ they’re going. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/25 "2009-04-02T00:29:00Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > No, I don’t believe that. There isn’t any basis for the claim that only Christians go to Heaven. Tell [this](http://www.geocities.com/johndavidmueller/Jesus-The_Only_Way.htm) guy. You may not agree (I sure don’t) but the New Testament is pretty clear. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/26 "2009-04-02T01:20:46Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Tell [this](http://www.geocities.com/johndavidmueller/Jesus-The_Only_Way.htm) guy. You may not agree (I sure don’t) but the New Testament is pretty clear. It is possible to believe that a certain kind of relation with Jesus is the only way to go to heaven, while also not believing that certified membership in a Christian™ church is the only way to have that relation. ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/27 "2009-04-02T01:32:52Z")
I was talking to a Christian in a bar last weekend who was telling me there was no Hell. He believed Jesus died for not just Christian sins, but all sins of all sinners and that hell is a manmade construct. It was pretty interesting, honestly, and not just because I was several G&Ts in the bag. Definitely refreshing. And it’s nice to see all these Christians above with largely inclusive beliefs, not to mention the fact they believe that a highly vocal minority is the one condemning well-meaning, charitable, generous people who don’t give their souls to Jesus to hell. I never bought that as a kid and it was one of the big reasons I drifted away from organized Christianity in the first place. That and the nuns. With the rulers. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/28 "2009-04-02T01:57:16Z")
> [@Birdmonster](#): > > I was talking to a Christian in a bar last weekend who was telling me there was no Hell. He believed Jesus died for not just Christian sins, but all sins of all sinners and that hell is a manmade construct. Then, what would be the point of being Christian? Why not just be atheist, sleep in on Sundays, save money on tithing, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/29 "2009-04-02T06:01:20Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > It is possible to believe that a certain kind of relation with Jesus is the only way to go to heaven, while also not believing that certified membership in a Christian™ church is the only way to have that relation. I think it’s all bullshit personally, but if you are going to believe in the divinity of Jesus based on a handfull of texts written almost two thousand years ago, you should probably follow what he is alleged to have said. If not, what is the point? Also, I was responding to the statement that “There isn’t any basis for the claim that only Christians go to Heaven” which is demonstrably untrue. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Quell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Quell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Quell)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/30 "2009-04-02T06:52:28Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Quell](#): > > I have no doubt I will spend eternity in Heaven with God and His people. > [@Lanzy](#): > > What do you think you will be doing there? I don’t have too many problems with heaven, but eternity is hard to grasp. \ Honestly, I don’t know. Eternity is hard for me to grasp as well. Whatever anyone does in Heaven for eternity will be glory to God and will be pleasing to God. For instance, any music written and played will be to the glory of God… if there is baseball (or any sport) in Heaven all games will be played for the glory of God… a game of hide-and-seek will be for the glory of God.. etc. Point is… Heaven will be an eternal fellowship for the glory and honor of God. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Quell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Quell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Quell)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/31 "2009-04-02T07:08:53Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > A man dies and goes to Heaven. He’s led on the grand tour by St. Peter. He notices a large group of people studying the Torah and animatedly discussing it among themselves. St. Peter says, “Those are the Jews…they love to argue about what the Big Guy actually said.” > > The man then notices a group of people standing around talking to each other, coffee urns and bottles of brandy on the side tables. “Those are the Episcopalians,” St. Peter tells him. > > The next group is having a huge feast, Italian pasta, Polish sausage, French Canadian poutine on the tables. St. Peter says, “Catholics. Best potluck dinners in Heaven.” > > Then they come to a big, 20’ fence, with a sign on the gate: “Quiet!” The man whispers to St. Peter, “Who’s in there?” St. Peter whispers back, “The Baptists. Keep your voice down. They think they’re the only ones here.” LOL! That’s hilarious. I know this joke won’t be as good as that one… but I still enjoy these types of jokes and I hope this makes someone chuckle… Three men, a Jew, a Muslim, and a Christian, die and go to Heaven. They are greeted by St. Peter at the pearly gates and St. Peter says “Welcome to Heaven. Before I can allow any of you to pass, you must answer a simple riddle and then spell your answer”. The three men give St. Peter a quizzical look, but accept the challenge. St. Peter asks the Jew, “Old McDonald had a… what”? The Jew thinks for a moment and says “Condo… C-O-N-D-O”. “No”, says St. Peter, “That is incorrect”. The Jew is denied entrance and is sent away. St. Peter then asks the Muslim, “Old McDonald had a… what”? The Muslim ponders the question and replies “House! H-O-U-S-E”. “I’m sorry but you are wrong” says St. Peter. The Muslim is denied entrance and is sent away. Finally, St. Peter turns to the Christian and asks “Old McDonald had a… what”? The Christian remembered the song from his childhood and immediately replied “FARM! Old McDonald had a farm”!! “YES, YES” exclaimed St. Peter, “Now spell it”!! The Christian smiled with pride and said… “E-I-E-I-O”! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/32 "2009-04-02T11:44:15Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Quell](#): > > Honestly, I don’t know. Eternity is hard for me to grasp as well. Whatever anyone does in Heaven for eternity will be glory to God and will be pleasing to God. For instance, any music written and played will be to the glory of God… if there is baseball (or any sport) in Heaven all games will be played for the glory of God… a game of hide-and-seek will be for the glory of God.. etc. > > Point is… Heaven will be an eternal fellowship for the glory and honor of God. Insecure much? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/33 "2009-04-02T12:30:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Insecure much? That’s pretty much the premise of the _Preacher_ comic series. However, that assumes that the whole purpose of the universe is to worship and glorify Him. Whereas, taking a step back, _if_ we assume the existence of a Creator God that is omnipotent and omniscient and yet is omnibenevolent and _actually wants to hang out with us_, we may well choose to praise and glorify Him of our own free will. I think that’s the general idea. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/34 "2009-04-02T12:50:20Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > I think it’s all bullshit personally, but if you are going to believe in the divinity of Jesus based on a handfull of texts written almost two thousand years ago, you should probably follow what he is alleged to have said. If not, what is the point? > > Also, I was responding to the statement that “There isn’t any basis for the claim that only Christians go to Heaven” which is demonstrably untrue. Here are two separate claims: A. According to the Bible, a certain relation towards Jesus is a requirement for salvation. B. According to the Bible, membership in the Christian church is a requirement for salvation. These are two different claims. Your link supports claim A. You are claiming your link supports claim B. But it doesn’t. Your link doesn’t indicate that “Jesus said” you have to be a Christian. And your link doesn’t “demonstrate” that the bible says you have to be a Christian. The link only “demonstrates” that the bible says there is some relation towards Jesus that is required for salvation. That’s a different claim than the one you are trying to argue for. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/35 "2009-04-02T13:00:31Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > No, I don’t believe that. There isn’t any basis for the claim that only Christians go to Heaven. Rather, the judgement is based on whether an individual chooses to be with God or against God. Heaven is the state of being united with God, Hell is the state of being separated from God. So those who choose to be united with are, and those who to be divided from God are. > > C. S. Lewis’ book [The Great Divorce](http://books.google.com/books?id=44ml8Z4UGEMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22The+Great+Divorce%22) provides a thoughtful look at the subject in allegory form. So if this is true, than atheists can’t go to heaven. You have to be a believer of some sort or god won’t take you. Am I reading you correctly? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/36 "2009-04-02T13:04:18Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Here are two separate claims: > > A. According to the Bible, a certain relation towards Jesus is a requirement for salvation. > B. According to the Bible, membership in the Christian church is a requirement for salvation. > > These are two different claims. Your link supports claim A. You are claiming your link supports claim B. But it doesn’t. Your link doesn’t indicate that “Jesus said” you have to be a Christian. And your link doesn’t “demonstrate” that the bible says you have to be a Christian. The link only “demonstrates” that the bible says there is some relation towards Jesus that is required for salvation. That’s a different claim than the one you are trying to argue for. I’m pretty sure he didn’t say B. What does membership in THE Christrian church mean, anyway? Which one? He just said you have to be Christian. Maybe this is using my own definition for something, but having that “certain relation towards Jesus” is Christian, isn’t it? It would seem that having a certain relation towards Jesus is a necessary precondition to being Christian, if not necessarily a sufficient one. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/37 "2009-04-02T13:13:50Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > So if this is true, than atheists can’t go to heaven. You have to be a believer of some sort or god won’t take you. Am I reading you correctly? Maybe we should have a list of people and a poll as to whether then can get in: 1. Christian 2. Muslim 3. Jew 4. Buddhist 5. Zen Buddhist 6. Hindu 7. Shinto 8. Wiccan 9. Other religion 10. Atheist 11. Former Christian 12. Serial killer who has accepted Christ 13. Apostate 14. Someone otherwise good who has never heard of Christ 15. Muslim/Jew/other who used to be Christian 16. Catholic 17. Non-Catholic 18. Follower of Phelps 19. Someone who thinks he’s Christian, but due to a mix-up has never been baptized (or christened, whatever you prefer) 20. Satanist (one who actually worships Satan, but is otherwise a good person) 21. Agnostic 22. Television evangelist who takes money and sets himself up pretty well 23. A mentally retarded person who doesn’t have the capacity to accept anyone as a personal savior 24. Serial killer who has not accepted Christ 25. Abortion doctor 26. Homosexual 27. Homosexual abortion doctor 28. (For the Baptists out there) The Pope 29. David Koresh 30. Jones of kool aid fame 31. Adolph Hitler 32. Mother Theresa 33. The Dalai Lama 34. Saddam Hussein 35. I could do this all day ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/38 "2009-04-02T13:14:16Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Maybe this is using my own definition for something, but having that “certain relation towards Jesus” is Christian, isn’t it? I don’t think so. Not unless we want to define “Christian” to include people who have never heard of Christ. My claim is that accd. to the Bible, it is possible to be saved through Christ without even having heard of him (in the sense of having heard someone talk about him or having read what someone wrote about him). ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/39 "2009-04-02T13:32:02Z")
I’ve heard lots of stories about what’s going to happen after we die. The only things they all had in common were that the people who told them absolutely believed that they were true, and that they all seemed to reflect the personal beliefs of the person doing the telling. If the person was nice, then atheists got to go heaven too. If the person was a judgmental arrogant ass, then very few people got to go to heaven, and they all just so happened to be people like them. To the people saying that everyone gets a shot at heaven no matter what you believe, what about [John 14:6](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%2014:6&version=31): > [@](#): > > Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Sounds pretty unambigious. So is [this](http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-only-way.html) guy right or wrong? How do you know? And what about [Mark 3:29](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark%203:29&version=31): > [@](#): > > But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin. Sounds like a lot of us are screwed. Provided this has any bearing on reality of course. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472/40 "2009-04-02T13:48:24Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That’s pretty much the premise of the _Preacher_ comic series. > > However, that assumes that the whole purpose of the universe is to worship and glorify Him. Whereas, taking a step back, _if_ we assume the existence of a Creator God that is omnipotent and omniscient and yet is omnibenevolent and _actually wants to hang out with us_, we may well choose to praise and glorify Him of our own free will. > > I think that’s the general idea. Anyone want try this out in real life? If you love someone, tell them. When they want to talk about their day, tell them how great they are and how much you love them. When they want to talk about a movie or book, tell them how wonderful they are for having those opinions and how much you love them. When they want to discuss finances, tell them they can do no wrong and how much you adore them. When they discuss politics, agree with every point they make unquestionably and tell them how much you cherish them. How would a normal person react, as opposed to an incredibly insecure person? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-for-christians/491472.md?page=3)