# Quick question re open container laws **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 20, 2007, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419 "2007-10-20T22:21:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/1 "2007-10-20T22:21:18Z")
My wife was discussing making jello shots for a party we’re going to this evening, and I jokingly asked if we’d get pulled over for having open containers of alcohol. But then I wondered if this was actually the case. If having jello shots accessible in the car is considered illegal, would such a law also apply to, for example, rum cake? Or does “a container of alcohol” only apply to alcoholic beverages in the condition in which they’re sold for retail? I’m in California, if the laws vary by state on this. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/2 "2007-10-21T01:00:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Possession of Open Container in Motor Vehicle > > 1. (a) No driver shall have in his or her possession, while in a motor vehicle upon a highway or on lands, as described in subdivision (b) of Section 23220, any bottle, can, **or other receptacle, containing any alcoholic beverage that has been opened, or a seal broken, or the contents of which have been partially removed.** > > (b) No passenger shall have in his or her possession, while in a motor vehicle upon a highway or on lands, as described in subdivision (b) of Section 23220, any bottle, can, **or other receptacle containing any alcoholic beverage that has been opened or a seal broken, or the contents of which have been partially removed.** > Amended Sec. 3, Ch. 384, Stats. 1998. Effective August 24, 1998. > Amended Sec. 3, Ch. 723, Stats. 1999. Effective January 1, 2000. **Emphasis mine.** Source: [http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc23223.htm](http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc23223.htm) Is a rum cake an open receptacle? If you are stopped and the cop is having a bad day, they could make your life difficult. Or if you are an SOB to the cop, same thing. Then again, if you get into an accident, the jello shots could spill inside the car and the cop might have a hard time believing the you. FWIW, I was raised to remove all doubt. Transport all alcohol in the trunk, all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/3 "2007-10-21T01:05:39Z")
What’s the recipe for rum cake? Is the rum added as an ingredient before or after the cooking? The reason I ask is because the heat of cooking would probably vaporize most of the alcohol out of the cake. So while alcohol might have been an ingredient in the making of the cake it might not be present in the finished cake. Jello shots, on the other hand - I think there’s no loophole there. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/4 "2007-10-21T01:45:53Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] What’s the recipe for rum cake? Is the rum added as an ingredient before or after the cooking? The reason I ask is because the heat of cooking would probably vaporize most of the alcohol out of the cake. So while alcohol might have been an ingredient in the making of the cake it might not be present in the finished cake. [/QUOTE] Wasn’t there a thread a while back where the whole “cooking vaporizes the alcohol” thing was revealed to be a myth? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/5 "2007-10-21T02:53:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Wasn’t there a thread a while back where the whole “cooking vaporizes the alcohol” thing was revealed to be a myth? I must have missed it. But looking around, it appears that cooking doesn’t make a cake alcohol free as I has assumed. According to this [site](http://www.ochef.com/165.htm), an hour of baking (as per this rum cake [recipe](http://baking.about.com/cs/cakes/a/bacardirum.htm)) would only vaporize 75% of the original alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/6 "2007-10-21T04:54:18Z")
[QUOTE=Duckster] FWIW, I was raised to remove all doubt. Transport all alcohol in the trunk, all the time. [/QUOTE] I’ll second that. I wasn’t raised to do that, but I did teach my parents to do that. And countless other people (including my aunt who didn’t understand why she couldn’t have an open bottle of khalua in her cup holder (with alcohol on her breath) as long as she wasn’t drinking it). Of course I also have a bartenders licensce to worry about on top of everything else that I could get for an open container violation. Bottom line, if it’s not in a sealed container, put it in the trunk or in the way back of the car. BTW, FWIW a six pack with a can missing is considered an open container. I can’t provide a cite, it might not even be true, but that’s what I was taught when I took my responsible beverage class. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/7 "2007-10-21T13:50:11Z")
In Ohio, it’s not an issue: > [@Ohio Revised Code §4301.62](#): > > (B) No person shall have in the person’s possession an opened container of beer or intoxicating liquor in any of the following circumstances: Since a jello shot would not be an “intoxicating liquor,” you should be safe. This is important in Ohio, because in Ohio, the open container laws apply to “(3) In any other public place.” That’s right. In Ohio, if you walk outside and down the public streets with an opened beer can, you are subject to citation for violation of the law. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/8 "2007-10-21T13:56:04Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] In Ohio, it’s not an issue: Since a jello shot would not be an “intoxicating liquor,” you should be safe. This is important in Ohio, because in Ohio, the open container laws apply to “(3) In any other public place.” That’s right. In Ohio, if you walk outside and down the public streets with an opened beer can, you are subject to citation for violation of the law. :eek: [/QUOTE] I don’t follow, why don’t you consider jello shots and intoxicating liquor? It’s tequila with some water, sugar and gelatin. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/9 "2007-10-21T14:05:44Z")
From 4301.01(1) “Intoxicating liquor” and “liquor” include all liquids and compounds, other than beer, containing one-half of one per cent or more of alcohol by volume which are fit to use for beverage purposes, from whatever source and by whatever process produced, by whatever name called, and whether they are medicated, proprietary, or patented. “Intoxicating liquor” and “liquor” include wine even if it contains less than four per cent of alcohol by volume, mixed beverages even if they contain less than four per cent of alcohol by volume, cider, alcohol, and all solids and confections which contain any alcohol. So yeah, jello shots ARE an intoxicating liquor according to the state of Ohio (and probably most other states. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/10 "2007-10-21T15:47:48Z")
[QUOTE=Joey P] From 4301.01(1) “Intoxicating liquor” and “liquor” include all liquids and compounds, other than beer, containing one-half of one per cent or more of alcohol by volume which are fit to use for beverage purposes, from whatever source and by whatever process produced, by whatever name called, and whether they are medicated, proprietary, or patented. “Intoxicating liquor” and “liquor” include wine even if it contains less than four per cent of alcohol by volume, mixed beverages even if they contain less than four per cent of alcohol by volume, cider, alcohol, and all solids and confections which contain any alcohol. So yeah, jello shots ARE an intoxicating liquor according to the state of Ohio (and probably most other states. [/QUOTE] what part of _gelatin_ and _beverage_ do you equate? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Rhubarb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Rhubarb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhubarb)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/11 "2007-10-21T15:57:38Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] what part of _gelatin_ and _beverage_ do you equate? :dubious: [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=4301.1(1)] and all solids and confections which contain any alcohol. [/QUOTE] It would be this part. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/12 "2007-10-21T16:36:22Z")
I imagine **DSYoungEsq** is quibbling about the “fit to use for beverage purposes” part. I think it stretches to cover jello shots. Arguably, it might leave soused baked goods off the hook, should they happen to contain more than 1/2 of 1 percent alcohol, which is unlikely in the case of a baked rum cake. What about [rum balls](http://www.joyofbaking.com/RumBalls.html), which are not baked, and retain the alcohol? That recipe appears to be slightly under 1/14 rum by volume (1/14 ignores the volume of the cocoa and corn syrup which are measured in tablespoons). Using 80 proof rum (40% alcohol), I arrive at over 2.8%. I somehow doubt that you are going to get busted for your Christmas cookies, however. If you are, I seriously hope the judge would pitch it out of court in approximately 15 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/13 "2007-10-21T16:57:01Z")
I think the “fit to use for beverage purposes” is supposed to define the type of alcohol. If you had an open container of windshield washer fluid in your car you’d be okay because the alcohol it contains is not drinkable alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/14 "2007-10-21T18:33:31Z")
Heh-I guess my Auntie’s fruitcake recipe is verboten, too. Not that dry, hockey-puck fruitcake-this is dark and moist, full of fruits and nuts (like SDMB), and she brushes it with whiskey and rum after baking, wraps tightly, and lets age, with periodic reapplications of booze. What you get this Xmas is a year old. Damn good, too. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/15 "2007-10-21T18:35:22Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] I think the “fit to use for beverage purposes” is supposed to define the type of alcohol. If you had an open container of windshield washer fluid in your car you’d be okay because the alcohol it contains is not drinkable alcohol. [/QUOTE] It also means you can have an open container of denatured alcohol in your front seat and not have to worry about it. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/16 "2007-10-21T18:54:51Z")
put the shots in containers and seal the containers with tape ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2007, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/17 "2007-10-21T20:14:44Z")
[QUOTE=Rhubarb] It would be this part. [/QUOTE] > [@Ohio Revised Code](#): > > which are fit to use for beverage Um, it is important, when reading statutes, to read all of the statute. Which I obviously didn’t do… :o Not everything with alchohol in it is considered to be controlled by the statute. And it is unreasonable to consider “which” to be referring to “alcohol” because it says "which _are_, meaning it has to be referring to something plural, and the plural nouns available are “liquids and compounds.” Which causes us to pause over the clause also referred to by you, namely the inclusion of “solids and confections containing alchohol.” My guess is someone tacked that one on later. So rum balls might well be included, as would jello shots. I suspect this wasn’t the intent of the legislature here. But mebbe best to keep them in the trunk… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2007, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quick-question-re-open-container-laws/423419/18 "2007-10-22T09:28:30Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] That’s right. In Ohio, if you walk outside and down the public streets with an opened beer can, you are subject to citation for violation of the law. :eek: [/QUOTE] That’s the law in most parts of Queensland, as well. Not always strictly enforced, but most City Councils have by laws against consuming alcohol in a public place that isn’t a park, reserve, or other place you’re likely to be having a picnic…