# Quickie Marts and people from the Mid East **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 23, 2003, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332 "2003-07-23T06:29:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/1 "2003-07-23T06:29:53Z")
Surely there has to be some reason that many convenience stores are owned/operated by people from the Mid East. This is based on my personal observations and not stereotypes, which I am not promoting. Anyone know of a factual explaination for this phenomenon? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/2 "2003-07-23T07:05:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dnooman \* > \*\*Surely there has to be some reason that many convenience stores are owned/operated by people from the Mid East. This is based on my personal observations and not stereotypes, which I am not promoting. > > Anyone know of a factual explaination for this phenomenon? \*\* Beyond making sales two of the most critical operational aspects of running a service business successfully are controlling the cost of labor and controlling employee theft. Middle eastern and asian owners tend to hire immediate and extended family members and pay them relatively little in exchange for providing an entre into the US and the grateful relatives usually (not always) work hard and tend not to steal from their family members. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/3 "2003-07-23T07:08:19Z")
Why always convenience stores? ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/4 "2003-07-23T07:14:02Z")
I’m going to WAG here. I suspect it’s because Quick-E-Marts tend to be pretty easy to start and don’t require as much capital as something bigger like a restaurant. You just need a small building, gas pumps, some general merchandise, and a few people to run it. If you, the owner, work there for say 10-12 hours a day, you may only need 2-3 people to run it in addition to you and, if you have the family, you probably don’t have to pay em much. And Quick-E-Marts are about as failsafe a business as you can get, if I had to bet. ---
**Author:** ![Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ebca7d/32.png) [@Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Violet)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/5 "2003-07-23T07:15:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dnooman \* > \*\*Why always convenience stores? \*\* I guess you have not visited many motels? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/6 "2003-07-23T07:27:43Z")
Well, ‘convenience stores’ are one of the cheapest & easiest businesses for an immigrant (or anyone else) to get into. Cheap because: - not much needed for equipment: shelves, coolers, counter & a cash register. - merchandise is not too expensive (groceries, etc.), and many wholesalers will sell to you on credit. - most are franchises, and often the franchiser can help with loans to finance startups. - no specialized help needed, so your whole family can take turns working in the store. (Thus it’s open all day long.) Easy because: - not much training needed to open a store like this. (Operating successfully, treating your customers right, and ordering what they will buy, etc. does take more skills, but can be learned on the job – if you can avoid going under first.) In urban areas, these stores are often located in buildings with living quarters upstairs. So your whole family lives upstairs, and take turns working in the business. Housing, a job, no transportation expenses, all in one. Compare this to operating a McDonalds, Burger King, OfficeMax, CUB Foods, etc. They take a couple million $ to get a franchise, purchase the equipment needed, and buy the supplies, pay for your share of their advertising budget, etc. Then there are months of training required at the headquarters of the franchiser, all with no income for this time. Also, for those whose mind runs that way, there are lots of opportunites for non-legal sidelines to make more money, tax-free: - under-the-counter markets in buying & reselling food stamps. - opportunity for small scale gampling (numbers) and bookmaking. - easy to do retail drug (pot, etc.) sales. - also easy to do small scale fencing (hot cell phones, pre-paid phone cards, hot credit cards, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/7 "2003-07-23T07:38:11Z")
I rather suspect you’re confusing Indians / Indian sub-Continentals with Middle Easterners. That being said, “small commerce” roughly analagous to small convience marts is the dominant form of private sector commerce in both regions, making the business model relatively familiar. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/8 "2003-07-23T08:14:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dnooman \* > \*\*Why always convenience stores? \*\* Okay, maybe donut shops too. [http://www.asianweek.com/2000\_06\_22/biz1\_cambodiandonutbiz.html](http://www.asianweek.com/2000_06_22/biz1_cambodiandonutbiz.html) ---
**Author:** ![peepthis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@peepthis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peepthis)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/9 "2003-07-23T12:00:35Z")
Not about Middle Easterns, but Cecil speaks on [How can Korean-Americans afford to start so many grocery stores?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a941104.html) Evidently it’s a community effort for Korean-Americans, and I suspect there may be something similar for other ethnic groups. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/10 "2003-07-23T12:57:52Z")
Are there any convenience stores run by Middle Easterners? There’s a lot run by Pakistanis, Indians, and other Indian subcontinental emigrants. There’s also a lot of Koreans running them. Are there any Middle Easterners at all? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/11 "2003-07-23T13:24:17Z")
I believe in India being a shopkeeper of any kind confers a certain amount of status. So Indians might find the jobs alluring in ways we native Americans wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/12 "2003-07-23T14:53:46Z")
Wendell, I think it depends on the area. Here in Michigan where we have the largest concentration of Middle Easterners outside of the Middle East, they do tend to own a lot of the convenience stores. I once heard a report on Public radio about the incidence of Pakistanis owning hotels. There were several factors are work. One was that being a hotelier was actually a traditional thing in some families; they said a lot of Pakistani motel owners in the U.S. come from the same region of Pakistan and have one of three last names. But they also said that it makes for a good business because (as someone noted for convenience stores) the businessowner him- or herself can do a lot of the work by putting in long hours and hiring family. This report also said something about the work ethic. It’s bad to generalize and this may have been a little insulting, but I think there is something to the idea that many Americans don’t want to work as hard. I think this is not laziness so much as our attitude about success. To a lot of people, being successful means having earned some leisure time. Owning a business is equated with a level of prestige & wealth, one that shouldn’t obligate you to be on site working 14 hours a day. I dunno, it kinda made sense at the time; of course they said it a lot better than I am. I think that also applies to convenience stores. Now that I think about it, all of the convenience stores around here that I frequent are owned by Middle Easterners. I get to know the owners because they are so often in the store. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/13 "2003-07-23T15:12:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wendell Wagner \* > \*\*Are there any convenience stores run by Middle Easterners? \*\* In the Buffalo area, most of the independent c-stores and bodegas are owned by immigrants from Yemen. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/14 "2003-07-23T15:20:45Z")
**CrankyAsAnOldMan** , Pakistan isn’t in the Middle East - it’s in South Asia. Middle East would be Israel, part of Turkey, Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, and the Arabian peninsula. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/15 "2003-07-23T18:08:35Z")
They guy that runs the place near my house is Iraqi, he now claims to be Pakistani to anyone that asks for obvious reasons. Thanks for the insight. ---
**Author:** ![Bongmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Bongmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bongmaster)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/16 "2003-07-24T17:26:30Z")
Someone please correct my WAG if it is way off base, but I have always assumed some kind of government subsidy for immigrants was responsible for the proliferation of 7-11 and Dunkin’ Doughnuts run by new Americans and foreigners. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/17 "2003-07-24T18:30:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > **CrankyAsAnOldMan** , Pakistan isn’t in the Middle East - it’s in South Asia. Middle East would be Israel, part of Turkey, Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, and the Arabian peninsula. The definition actually varies a bit. Iraq is always included as well. Other areas, sometimes. For example this map includes Iran, Cyprus and the Caucasus: [http://www.sitesatlas.com/Maps/Maps/MEast.htm](http://www.sitesatlas.com/Maps/Maps/MEast.htm) But this map excludes the Caucasus: [http://www.yourchildlearns.com/middle\_east\_map.htm](http://www.yourchildlearns.com/middle_east_map.htm) These two are extra-inclusive and include several Central Asian states and extends all the way to the Indian border, including Pakistan: [http://www.geographyiq.com/meast.htm](http://www.geographyiq.com/meast.htm) > **[Middle East Map / Map of the Middle East - Facts, Geography, History of the...](https://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/me.htm)** > > Middle East map, facts, and flags. Physical map of Iraq, map of Turkey, Dubai map. Free map of Middle East for teachers and students. Great geography information for students. As this map notes, a lot of people include Egypt in the Middle East as well: > **[Middle East Map](https://www.infoplease.com/atlas/middle-east)** > > Planning a trip? Doing some research? Just like maps? Check out our map of Middle East to learn more about the country and its geography. Me? I go east far enough to include Iran and include the Caucasus and, when I’mn feeling like it, Egypt. I don’t include any of old Soviet Central Asia. I have my reasons for this scheme, but it is plenty arbitrary :). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/18 "2003-07-24T18:42:36Z")
That should be: [http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/me.htm](http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/me.htm) - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2003, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/19 "2003-07-24T20:31:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\ ***CrankyAsAnOldMan** , Pakistan isn’t in the Middle East - it’s in South Asia. Middle East would be Israel, part of Turkey, Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, and the Arabian peninsula. \*\* I’m aware of that; sorry if I confused anyone else. I brought up Pakistani hotel owners only because someone else mentioned South Asians as frequent owners of some types of businesses, and because it was an example of an immigrants-owning-businesses trend which I had heard discussed in a scholarly way (rather than just conjecture). I thought it was as fitting to address that, as it was to relate my Chaldean neighbors owning the Party Store around the block. You should have been a fly on the wall when we were trying to revise a reporting of how many of our international students hail from whichwhere. We don’t usually do those reports from our office, and had to work from a list someone else had done that gave wishy-washy region names without countries designated. We had some mild disagreement about how to classify certain countries in Africa, but nearly came to blows over Turkey. Heh. ---
**Author:** ![giftedest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7c8e57/32.png) [@giftedest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/giftedest)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quickie-marts-and-people-from-the-mid-east/190332/20 "2003-07-30T18:36:47Z")
Don’t forget that the middle east is the birthplace of merchant-ing. I was curious about a local little grocery owner’s country of origin while browsing the internet… entered his name and hit on a page from a school, the name sounds like it teaches how to run businesses such as grocery stores… anyhoo, the page listed names of all graduates that year, plus their country of origin. Many were from Egypt and Lebanon, my search name wasn’t on the list, but it turns out he’s from Lebanon… where the average yearly income is around $4,000 US (don’t quote me on that). I do believe the theory that foreigners are generally more trustworthy and dependable when it comes to working 365 days a year, then there’s the added element of providing a service for the community that this guy genuinely enjoys about his job.