QUIET muffler for sportbike?

HUH???

I said:

and that is not trying to help and to let others know what you are trying to do?

Daves explains how I was answering your question about a straight piped chopper and you get all huffy???

From your posts, it seems to me that you lack almost all knowledge about motorcycles and the folks here are trying to help you . They are not slamming you or being smart ass. They are trying to help. They fact that you are asking here and not at a shop says a lot all by itself. People are answering your questions as well as they can as it becomes clear where you are trying to go.

You got me cured, so I leave it to the rest.

Ease up dude, I don’t worry about lack of knowledge, I try to help with folks smart nuff to ask. Just don’t get huffy with the ones that try to answer for ya.

A few things about scooters.

Most folk imagine scooters to be small capacity 2-stroke machines, cheap to run, easy to maintain, eays to handle in traffic stalled cities.

Nowadays there is a much broader range, but they fall into 2 main engine types, 2-stroke and 4-stroke, in the US the 2-strokes are all but outlawed by emissions regulations and increasingly in Europe too, and although there is an injected 2-stroke which keep the crankcase seperate from the compression process and results in not needing to have 2-stroke lubricating oil added to the fuel, these machines are of very small cpacacity and are not really worth considering just yet.

Scooters traditionally have had a cpacity of around 125cc, they usually have a certain amount of bodywork that protect the riders from the elements to a small degree, and the engine in mounted on the swingarm to the back wheel. This last point makes for easier maintenance, and cheaper manufacture but it affects the handling as this significant weight sits below the suspension and adds to the unsprung weight.
This is important because the performance of suspension is determined by a ratio of rates of change of momentum between the sprung and unsprung weight, the lower the unsprung weight compared to sprung wieght, the better.

On small light scooters, on low power and on town roads, this is not hugely important, but modern superscooters have much higher power and so may be epected to undertake cross country journeys.

The Japanese have designed their superscoots so that the engine sits within the chassis and improves the handling at higher speed no end, but this adds to the overall weight and affects the low speed handling required in their most common environment - the crowded city streets.

Here is a sample of what is available.

The Honda Silverwing

Not to be mistaken for a “conventional” bike of that name that Honda sold in the 1970’s

http://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/DispatcherServlet?hidAction=Lookup&hidActionDetail=viewproductspec&hidMSGID=6&hidMSGCode=SCOOTERS&hidMSGName=Scooters&hidProductID=34&hidSelectedProductCode=SILVER_WING&hidProductName=Silver+Wing

First thing to note is that this is heavy, 600cc water cooled 4 stroke, it can get along quite nicely at around 100mph and being Honda it will be very quiet.

Next up is the Suzuki Burgman

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/22october02suzukiburgman650.html

Pretty much all that applies to the Honda applies to this, except that it is even heavier.

Now for Yamaha and the 500cc TMAX

http://www.yamaha-motor.com.au/motor/index.htm?motor_detail.asp?MD_ID=57

This is probably the best ahndling of all the Japanese super scoots but it is very expensive, even moreso thant the other two, but this is not such bad news as you would think.
The TMAX is way overpriced so that franchised dealers who are forced to stock them under their supply agreements with Yamaha cannot sell them, this means that whenever the registration year is about to change, they are stuck with machines they have to get rid of or take a large hit on valuation, as they would be last years machine. The result is that I’ve seen dealers offering them at around two thirds of list price, and that is just the sticker price, a canny purchaser could extract more value and maybe get kit thrown in at cost too.
All these are also expensive to buy, insure, and run, they can consume gas at a good old rate if you use the available performance.
They are dead easy to ride, no gear worries, you can get ABS, there is plenty of stowage space for crash hats, laptops or even a modest amount of shopping.
The is nothing on four wheels that can get away from the lights as fast as these, and plenty of conventional machines would struggle at first to keep up because of that auto box.

I think that the Japanese have missed the point of scooters somewhat by concentrating on outright power and long distance ability, the reality is that such machines will spend most of their lives in towns and cities, fighting to squeeze through small gaps, turning in tiny spaces and ripping away from the lights and through roadwork reduced roads.

I think perhaps Piaggio is nearer the mark with its X9.

http://www.ppscooters.co.uk/x9.html

This is a 250cc machine and is plenty quick enough for the job, it is much lighter, it is cheaper to buy, run and maintain etc.
There will be a 500cc version available soon which will be able to take on the large Japanese capacity models but it will still be better suited to town riding, being smaller physically and slightly lighter.

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/020405/7/wpes.html

There are several other 250cc scoots such as the Foresight, Majesty so you could take a look at those as well but they are overpriced.

thanks guys.

i happen to know a decent amount about bikes. but it’s all book knowledgeand science, not hands-on knowledge.

super scooters are the way to go from here. my bro is deciding which one to buy after selling his beloved vespa. he’s the real reason i posted this question.

Well, I’m not sure you could say it was quiet, but you’d never be suspected of riding a bike when they hear this approaching. Here is a good video on it.

I think you may be fighting a losing battle if you try to keep an engine that will be revving 10K RPMs and up quiet.

Jax

Those super scoots do not need to rev anything like as high as 10k rpm, which engine speed is more closely associated with 2-strokes and lower cpacity high performance sports bikes.

Although bikes like 1000cc sports machines can easily rev up to that speed, it is very difficult to use them like that for any length of time in the real world.

I have seen once, a guy on a Valkerie (sp) the big assed 6 from Honda. He started that thing and you could not hear it standing next to it. He said he wanted it that way as loud pipes annoyed him so he got quiter pipes. This was a couple of years ago so I don’t know who made the pipes. However that’s a cruiser and not a sports bike so getting really quiet pipes might be more of a problem.

I was referring to his original question, in reference to keeping a 600cc supersport quiet.

And I use my R1 over 10K RPMs all the time :slight_smile:

If anything the smaller displacement bikes need to be reved more. The litre bikes at least make some torque down low. My ZX6R is dead before about 6-7K and doesn’t even really grt into the power till 10-11k.

But on the OP I still don’t believe you will get much quieter than the stock exhaust without some serious custom exhaust work. Contact M4 or D&D, both in Dallas, or even Muzzy. They are small enough companies to be able to talk with you about what you want and let you know if it even feasable or even worth continuing the line of inquiry.

M4
M4 Products, Inc.
2520 Merrell Road
Dallas, Texas 75229
972-481-9300

D&D
D and D Exhausts
2923 Edith Lane
Fort Worth, TX 76117
817-834-8961

Muzzy
Muzzys
62910 Peerless Ct.
Bend, OR 97701
541-385-0706

Why?
Makes the people around you easier to get along with?
Yuppies on HD’s are the only unthinking bikers out there bothering civilians?
Because you can and don’t care what others feel about the space?
You only ride where other people are not around? :confused:

::: “To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it.” :::

How does it bother civilians? The power band is from 6K-12.5K or so. It’s not like I’m sitting at a light in a residential area revving the engine up to make noise…maybe I’m doing a track day…maybe I’m passing someone…

How is it offensive to use my bike’s available powerband in situations that call for it?

Out of interest Jax what speed will an R1 do when in top gear at 6k ?

The R1 must have one of the widest power bands there is, it gives huge drive from way down, which makes it such an immensely formidable machine, you could ride around in top gear all day and not worry about bogging down at 30mph.

I think I would be intimidated on an R1 at around 10k on the road, fine if were are talking a red hot 400, part of the fun is wringing the neck out of it, but I don’t think I’ve met a rider who can extract the most out of an R1, simply because the most is just so much, damn thing can wheelie in third at almost any revs and at any speed and you can still lift the front on power in fourth at nearly any speed.

…and that is before tweaking it, for the occasions when too much is just not enough.

I’m not exactly sure but I think the R1 will top out at about 175-180ish, given enough room.

The speedo will indicate 175…but almost all sportbike speedos get off by 10-15% at high speeds…I would guess real speed it would top out around 165…dunno…I refuse to take it up there on public roads, I never get it over 120.

The power band is wonderful though, I could leave it in first and cruise at 50-60mph and still have room to yank the throttle if I needed to…but if I’m cruising at 60-70 I’m usually in 3rd…I try to never cruise below 6K RPMs, in case something happens and I need to be in the powerband immediately.

Two stories that illustrate the power band:
I went cruising with a buddy of mine who has a Softail, we would take off from stops and he would have to go through 3 gears before I had to drop into second.

Also, I took an on track class to qualify for my CCS license, and the instructor rode an R6. We had to follow him around the track so he could see our ability to keep up, and he was using 3 gears to get around the track, I just left it in 3rd, which would get me through the low speed (50mph or so) corners, but also get me down the straights. Was nice because I didn’t have to worry about matching revs on downshifts entering corners.

My R1 is dynoed at 149.1HP, which is up about 20 or so over stock. I’ve never ridden a Gixxer 1000, but I hear their powerband starts a little earlier, but doesnt have quite as much up top.

I just bought a CBR600 race bike, I’ll have to get used to keeping it revved high. I don’t think I would like a 600 on the street.

Ummm… the question was, how fast would you be going on an R1 if you were in top gear at an engine speed of 6k ?

O blah I completely avoided your question…
I dunno…I’ll take it out this evening or tomorrow and find out for you though.

Fuel, respectively I have to ask: Why would you want to put a “quiet” muffler on a sportbike in the first place? For one thing a densely packed pipe will defiantly impede your performance. To even get it to work properly you would need to re-jet your carbs to a smaller size. That in turn will slash your feul/02 mixture. Secondly, and much more importantly you will be placing your self in a greater degree of danger! A motto often used by Harley and Sport riders alike is:**If they can’t see me coming, I want them to hear me coming!!**With all the dangers that come along with riding a motorcycle these days, making your presence known is a very important aspect of staying safe and even alive out there. What ever you choose to do:Good Luck and keep it rubber side down!!

i use my horn mercilously out there on the roads. they hear me coming alright…but only when i want them to hear me. rest of the time it would be nice to jet around with minimal noise, but as i am quickly discovering, that is a wish santa won’t be able to grant this christmas. :frowning:

Born to be mild: Harley Davidson unveils its environmentally friendly bike of the future… but critics say it’s quiet than a lawnmower

Couple other GQ threads related to this, this one seems most general technical.

Jesus what a dead neighborhood…