# Quit jogging in the street you neuticle! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 30, 2005, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234 "2005-08-30T12:15:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/81 "2005-08-31T16:28:09Z")
Oh and **Scylla** , you might find this part interesting: > [@](#): > > Sec. 11‑1003.1. Drivers to exercise due care. Notwithstanding other provisions of this Code or the provisions of any local ordinance, every driver of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any pedestrian, or any person operating a bicycle or other device propelled by human power **and shall give warning by sounding the horn when necessary and shall exercise proper precaution upon observing any child or any obviously confused** , incapacitated or intoxicated person. As far as I am concerned anyone running in the street when there is a perfectly good sidewalk is obviously confused, so I blow them some cool jazz, in accordance with the law. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/82 "2005-08-31T16:29:43Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Or on the shoulder, right? If there is no sidewalk, sure. If there is a sidewalk, stay off the shoulder as well. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/83 "2005-08-31T16:35:56Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > If there is no sidewalk, sure. If there is a sidewalk, stay off the shoulder as well. This one ain’t ambiguous. The shoulder is fine. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/84 "2005-08-31T16:37:46Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > This one ain’t ambiguous. The shoulder is fine. Not when there is a sidewalk. Not in Illinois. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/85 "2005-08-31T16:42:42Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Not when there is a sidewalk. Not in Illinois. “ROADWAYS: Pedestrians must not walk on a roadway unless there is no sidewalk or shoulder next to it. Under these conditions, pedestrians should always walk as close to the outside edge of the road as possible. In two-way traffic, pedestrians should walk facing oncoming traffic.” Do you not see where the differentiate between shoulder and roadway? Shoulder and sidewalk are being equated in the first sentence (and differentiated from roadway). This is very clear. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/86 "2005-08-31T16:53:22Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Do you not see where the differentiate between shoulder and roadway? Shoulder and sidewalk are being equated in the first sentence (and differentiated from roadway). This is very clear. That’s not what the law says, and if you are still quoting that link on the IL Secretary of State’s website, I will say the official statute trumps any safety advisories posted elsewhere. You can walk on the the shoulder only if there is no sidewalk. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/87 "2005-08-31T17:58:35Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Goddamn it, I was itching for a fight, and you ruined it for me. Careful what you itch for. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/88 "2005-08-31T18:38:40Z")
What city has shoulders alongside its streets? The only places I’ve ever seen a shoulder are along interstates and other major roads. Is there some other definition of shoulder besides the extra gravel lane that motorist can pull into in order to get out of traffic when mechanically distressed? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/89 "2005-08-31T19:04:37Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Careful what you itch for. 🙂 Oh C’mon! If it weren’t fun, I would have stopped two days ago! ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/90 "2005-08-31T19:11:35Z")
That IS what the law says: (a) Where a sidewalk is provided and its use is practicable, it shall be unlawful for any pedestrian to walk along and upon an adjacent roadway. (b) Where a sidewalk is not available, any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall walk only on a shoulder, as far as practicable from the edge of the roadway. The word “practicable” is left intentionally vague and not defined anywhere. But, if we look at [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com), we get: “Capable of being effected, done, or put into practice; feasible. See Synonyms at possible. Usable for a specified purpose: a practicable way of entry.” The sidewalk, as has been attested here, is not usable for the specific purpose of running for any number of reasons already discussed. You yourself have acknowledged this much when you suggested that if it isn’t feasible to run, we should simply not run. Your conclusion was wrong, but I forgive you. Thus we jump to b. I can use the shoulder to my heart’s content if I’m in Illinois. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/91 "2005-08-31T19:13:39Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > I can use the shoulder to my heart’s content if I’m in Illinois. And that is why I labeled you an elitist; the law applies to everyone else but you. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/92 "2005-08-31T21:05:33Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > And that is why I labeled you an elitist; the law applies to everyone else but you. Well, me and the Illinois Secretary of State. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/93 "2005-08-31T21:12:09Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Shoulder and sidewalk are being equated in the first sentence (and differentiated from roadway). This is very clear. Only in your mind, Grasshopper. Even in that cite, the law is clear; when there is a sidewalk, it is to be used exclusively. The shoulder may only be used in the absence of a sidewalk. There is no equating the sidewalk with the shoulder. So you are alone on this one. Pretty much the definition of elitist. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/94 "2005-08-31T22:22:24Z")
Runners are elitist??? Taking advantage of and showing off the fact that they have legs? And feet? And lungs? Unlike everybody else? Damn! ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/95 "2005-08-31T23:50:59Z")
> [@bluethree](#): > > Runners are elitist??? Taking advantage of and showing off the fact that they have legs? And feet? And lungs? Unlike everybody else? > > Damn! Well, I do run with a glass of Chardonay, a platter of fine cheeses and some shrimp cocktail. And I do tend to spit the shrimp shells out on the non-jogging plebeians. But, I don’t think that makes me elitist. I mean, if that’s wrong, then I don’t want to be right. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/96 "2005-09-01T00:55:49Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Only in your mind, Grasshopper. Even in that cite, the law is clear; Well… no. As it turns out, you are full of shit. Look again at your cites. They mention **walking**. We are talking about **running**. You are assuming that the laws pertaining to walking are identical to those pertaining to running. Not the same. Running is much faster. Concerning honking, it appears to me that the law is clear that the honking is to be used appropriately to warn runners of danger, an impending accident. What you are doing is creating a danger and putting other people at risk. Let us be frank. Getting behind the wheel of a large automobile and feeling and acting upon feelings of hostility towards pedestrians is the mark of a man compensating for his inadequacies. Grow up. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/97 "2005-09-01T01:08:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Well… no. As it turns out, you are full of shit. Look again at your cites. They mention **walking**. > > We are talking about **running**. It’s good thing I know you are being facetious, I might actually waste time and energy rebutting a laughable distinction. > [@](#): > > What you are doing is creating a danger and putting other people at risk. Right back atcha, Nike Breath. > [@](#): > > Getting behind the wheel of a large automobile and feeling and acting upon feelings of hostility towards pedestrians is the mark of a man compensating for his inadequacies. And insisting on running in the street in flagrant disregard of the law is the sign of what, **Scylla**? Does the law not apply to you? Are you above the law? ---
**Author:** ![Kiminy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Kiminy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiminy)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/98 "2005-09-01T01:28:31Z")
For the record, I agree completely with the OP. I am not opposed to joggers being in the street when there is no sidewalk. I have walked and jogged on enough streets without sidewalks (or even roadsides!) that I am perfectly willing to yield to joggers and walkers in the same situation. I am also not opposed to joggers/walkers who jog along the left edge of streets where there _is_ a sidewalk, and who are kind enough to get off the road (or as close to the edge as possible) when they see my car coming. I _am_ opposed to joggers/walkers who either insist on jogging in the center of the car lane (_especially_ when there is a sidewalk available for their use) or who jog/walk on _their_ right side of the street, and therefore cannot always see or hear cars approaching in their lane. By the laws of every state I’ve lived in, foot traffic is supposed to travel in the opposite lane of vehicle traffic, if only so that pedestrians can see cars who may not see them. In addition, sidewalks are for pedestrians when they are available, and the street is for vehicles. If a pedestrian chooses to use the road when a sidewalk is available, they should at least have the courtesy to yield to the traffic that has the right-of-way. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/99 "2005-09-01T02:04:55Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > It’s good thing I know you are being facetious, I might actually waste time and energy rebutting a laughable distinction. I am not in the least bit facetious. You should examine one of your local New Hampshire Road Runner’s clubs which operate with the full sanction and cooperation of law. Running on the roads is legal. You have cites saying that walking on roads is illegal in some circumstances. Running and walking are different things. Running is three to four times faster and presents unique challenges and hazards to runners, pedestrians and traffic which need to be dealt with differently than regular pedestrian traffic. > [@](#): > > And insisting on running in the street in flagrant disregard of the law is the sign of what, **Scylla**? Does the law not apply to you? Are you above the law? You have failed to read the law correctly. Show me a cite where **running** on the roads is illegal, and not only will I conceed the point, I will report all the New Hampshire Road Runners Clubs to the local authorities. I ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/100 "2005-09-01T02:12:40Z")
Btw, you **do** have my sympathy for any inconsiderate and impolite runners you encounter. I think its wrong for them not to make every effort not to impede traffic. The problem though is that you encounter an assholish jogger and he maybe annoys you or adds two seconds to your drive. I encounter an assholish drive and I end up dead or bleeding in a ditch. Do you see the difference here? The consequences of driving like an asshole for outweigh the consequences of being a running asshole. Therefore it is morally encumbent upon the driver to exercise an extreme measure of discretion. Would you disagree? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234.md?page=6)