# Quit jogging in the street you neuticle! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 30, 2005, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234 "2005-08-30T12:15:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/101 "2005-09-01T03:01:32Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Running on the roads is legal. Running on the roads is illegal, in most states. > [@](#): > > The problem though is that you encounter an assholish jogger and he maybe annoys you or adds two seconds to your drive. I encounter an assholish drive and I end up dead or bleeding in a ditch. > > Do you see the difference here? Yes. Running on the roads is illegal, while driving on the roads is not. You endanger everyone by creating a hazard which prudent drivers must avoid, at risk to themselves and other legal users of the road. You are selfish, arrogant with a wholesale disregard for public safety. I am not, though I do enjoy honking at you bastards, in accordance with the law. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/102 "2005-09-01T03:13:35Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Running on the roads is illegal, in most states.Yes. Running on the roads is illegal, while driving on the roads is not. You are simply wrong. As a member of a local chapter of a national road runners club that operates with full santion and cooperation of government and law enforcement, I can tell you that you are just simply demonstrably wrong. What you have shown is that **walking** on a road **in certain specific circumstances** provided that one is in **New Hamphsire** is illegal. Your cite makes no mention of running, and doesn’t say anything about any other state. You’re demonstrable wrong. > [@](#): > > You endanger everyone by creating a hazard which prudent drivers must avoid, at risk to themselves and other legal users of the road. As a law-abiding road runner I am a legal user of the road. Unlike yourself, I do not terrorize or deliberately endanger my fellow users of the road. Unlike yourself I am not irresponsibly operating a dangerous vehicle in an aggressive fashion. > [@](#): > > You are selfish, arrogant with a wholesale disregard for public safety. I am not, though I do enjoy honking at you bastards, in accordance with the law. You have serious issues here, and I don’t think I can reason somebody out of a stance they didn’t arrive at through reason. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/103 "2005-09-01T03:16:48Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > You’re demonstrable wrong. And yet you have failed to demonstrate anything! Show me the statute that specifically permits running on a road on which walking is prohibited, and I will cede the point. Until then, my cite beats your fabrication. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/104 "2005-09-01T03:32:30Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > And yet you have failed to demonstrate anything! I’m not the one making the positive argument. You’re asserting that road running is illegal. It’s up to you to prove that argument. I need demonstrate nothing. > [@](#): > > Show me the statute that specifically permits running on a road on which walking is prohibited, and I will cede the point. Until then, my cite beats your fabrication. Your cite makes no mention of roadrunning. It is worthless. It applies only to New Hampshire. There are road runners clubs all across America that exist with the full cooperation and approval of law enforcement. Runners run on roads all across America with the approval of law enforcement. If you wish to suggest that running on the roads is illegal, which **is** your argument than it is up to you to demonstrate it. If you wish to show that cooking a burrito in a kitchen is illegal you need to demonstrate. I need show no law that cooking burritos is legal. In the absence of a legal prohibition it is legal. Plus, I just can’t beleive the stupidity of the argument that running on roads is illegal. It’s amazing to me the level of imbecility I encounter on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/105 "2005-09-01T04:13:33Z")
**Scylla** , you’re a braver man than I. I didn’t even want to parse the issue of running vs. walking. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/106 "2005-09-01T04:17:26Z")
Back on page 1 I linked to a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=273115) I started a while back on this subject where I asked if jogging killed brain cells > [@](#): > > The only reason for this behavior that I can think of is that jogging kills brain cells. When someone takes up jogging they have a full complement of brain cells, and they use the sidewalk. As they jog more and more, they kill brain cells. At a certain point, enough cells are killed, they forget that pedestrians aren’t supposed to play in the street and they start to run in the street. Against traffic, since they still have that 3rd brain cell working. However when they get completely brain dead, the run with traffic and will never see the car that creams them. > I mean come on now, at what age were you taught not to play in the street? After 3 pages I believe we have proved the theory that I put forth in that other thread. Jesus people get a grip. If you are walking you are a pedestrian. If you are jogging you are a pedestrian. If you are running you still are defined as a pedestrian. Look at the root of the word. From [Merriam-Webster online](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=pedestrian) > [@](#): > > Etymology: Latin pedestr-, pedester, literally, going on foot, from ped-, pes foot > and > 1 : COMMONPLACE, UNIMAGINATIVE > 2 a : going or performed on foot b : of, relating to, or designed for walking \ Obviously def #1 does not apply here. But def #2A sure as hell does. If you are on foot you are a pedestrian. To argue different would be the same as a Ferrari owner arguing that the law that apply to Yugos don’t apply to him since the Ferrari goes so much faster than a Yugo. if you want to settle this argument once and for all, just find a statue in NH or IL that says that a runner is not a pedestrian. If you cannot come up with that, then the origin of the word, and the dictionary would seem to make a runner a pedestrian. Oh, and for crying out loud, get the fuck out of the bike lane when I am approaching you, I don’t want to have to swerve into traffic and get butt fucked by 4,000 lbs of car just case you are in the wrong fucking place. :wally ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/107 "2005-09-01T09:47:14Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I’m not the one making the positive argument. You fabricated a ridiculous distinction between “walking” and “running”. You supplied no cite. Support it or go away. You fabricated approval by law enforcement for running on the roadway. You supplied no cite. Support it or go away. I supplied the statutes for both New Hampshire and Illinois that prohibit pedestrians on the roadway when a sidewalk is available. Unless and until you support your claims with cites, I win this argument, hands down, and no amount of hand-waving or circular justification on your part will change that. Go whine somewhere else, neuticle. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/108 "2005-09-01T11:30:24Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > **Scylla** , you’re a braver man than I. I didn’t even want to parse the issue of running vs. walking. So, what you’re saying is that traffic law covers walkers and cyclists in intimate detail, but lets _runners_ do whatever they fucking want on the road? None of these laws have the word running or jogging in them, so there is no law governing them? Oh, I forgot to ask, is running and jogging different too? I wouldn’t want to insult one of you runners by calling you a jogger by accident. “No your honor, I wasn’t walking along the road, I was _skipping_, so it was perfectly legal.” Honestly, I thought Scylla was joking about it, you know, just to needle Fear Itself a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/109 "2005-09-01T11:41:25Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > In the absence of a legal prohibition it is legal. By your contorted logic, dancing the Macarena down the street is legal, because it isn’t specifically prohibited. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/110 "2005-09-01T15:27:25Z")
Gotta say, I also don’t see the legal difference between jogging and walking. I think you are going to need to provide us with some evidence of your assertion, **Scylla**. Oh, regarding jogging on the sidewalk across back alleys and driveways - drivers are supposed\* to come to a full stop before crossing a sidewalk, to keep it safe for pedestrians of any speed. \*Yeah, I know, there are a lot of things drivers are SUPPOSED to do. Because drivers are sloppy and dangerous, I look for drivers barrelling down the alley before crossing it when I’m a pede. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/111 "2005-09-01T15:35:06Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **Cheesesteak** > > In the absence of a legal prohibition it is legal. > > By your contorted logic, dancing the Macarena down the street is legal, because it isn’t specifically prohibited. :rolleyes: I apologize **Cheesesteak** , that quote was wrongly attributed to you, when it should have been **Scylla**. Mea Culpa. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/112 "2005-09-01T20:55:53Z")
**Fear** is correct in his interpretation of Illinois law (on the issue of pedestrians and roadways). (625 ILCS 5/1‑158) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 1‑158) Sec. 1‑158. Pedestrian. Any person afoot, including a person with a physical, hearing, or visual disability. (Source: P.A. 88‑685, eff. 1‑24‑95.) The term _Pedestrians_ includes joggers and runners. If there’s a sidewalk, runners have to use it, if practicable. Although that last term isn’t defined in the code, an argument that using the sidewalk isn’t practicable because the road is softer, or because occasional sidewalk obstructions require the runner to slow down sometimes just ain’t gonna fly. If the sidewalk is blocked, that’s different, but you better retrurn to the sidewalk once you pass by the blocked area. This is primarily a criminal law concept, but the rule has an impact on civil cases as well. I’m ignoring several civil law nuances that don’t change the general answer to the general question under debate. General information, not legal advice, I’m not your lawyer, if you have a real world situation, see an Illinois lawyer in person for reliable advice. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/113 "2005-09-02T00:22:36Z")
To bring this back to the original rant, I run, and mainly avoid the sidewalks. Besides being concrete, they are in HORRIBLE shape around here. The problems I have: 1. The freeze/thaw cycle has made them uneven, and left curbs in between the sections. A misstep on that will kill your knee. They clearly don’t have anywhere near the maintenance budget of the roads. 2. They don’t clean them off after the winter, like they do the roads. It’s September and there are still sidewalks covered with salt and sand that is really nasty to run on. 3. Low hanging tree branches are not cool. 4. When there are lots of cross streets, running sidewalk to road to sidewalk is a lot worse on your knees then staying on the nice flat road. The interesting thing is that I don’t feel much danger at all when running against traffic, on a normal flat road. I can move sideways, the car can’t. This also makes the driver uncomfortably of course. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/114 "2005-09-02T00:43:28Z")
> [@Mooch](#): > > Oh dammit. 🙂 > > The joints thing may make sense - why don’t they jog on the grass? Or if their joints are so bad that the asphalt seems so much softer - pick a lower impact type of excercise. We have a rather large lake a few blocks to the east. > > The way they roll their eyes you would think I was driving on their personal excercise track. or on railroad tracks ---
**Author:** ![furnace222](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/45deac/32.png) [@furnace222](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furnace222)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/115 "2005-09-02T00:57:02Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Now I think I may start running in the road. Sure. Help yourself. It’s not like 2 out of 3 drivers talk on their cell phone while driving and will be too distracted to notice you. I hope you feel quite sanctimonious under thier right-front tire. ---
**Author:** ![furnace222](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/45deac/32.png) [@furnace222](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furnace222)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/116 "2005-09-02T01:12:57Z")
Random: Since you are on right now and seem to be an Illinois Lawyer with at least a cursory understanding of the Laws of the Road or at least access thereto; could you please answer my question [here?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=332922) ---
**Author:** ![furnace222](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/45deac/32.png) [@furnace222](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furnace222)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/117 "2005-09-02T01:13:26Z")
Random: Since you are on right now and seem to be an Illinois Lawyer with at least a cursory understanding of the Laws of the Road or at least access thereto; could you please answer my question [here?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=332922) sorry for the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/118 "2005-09-02T01:33:39Z")
Anybody with such rage over having to deal with _gasp!_ a jogger on the side of the road is a fucking moron. Who cares? I jog 4 or 5 times a week, and I jog on the side of the road. I jog tight to the gutter, and whenever I see a car approach, I assume it’s going to hit me–meaning, I am poised to jump on the sidewalk until I am assured by the car’s trajectory that I am safe. I am always careful, and I never run in a way that assumes that _you_ have to be mindful of _me_ because I have a God-given right of way. Somebody in a rage clips me and kills me? Whatever. We’re all born to die. I’m still more likely to live longer by jogging, and I need a softer surface, particularly since I turned 40. Everybody’s tough in his car. Next time I piss you off because of my selfish jogging, stop your car and get in my face, tough guy. You can cite some laws to me while you’re jabbing your finger in my chest. We’ll see what happens. Just don’t be chickenshit and beep or swerve at me. Be a man and stop your car. It’ll be real interesting for you, I guarantee. I could care less if some dipshit is pissed because I’m jogging. All I can do is jog safe and be considerate of others on the road. If that’s not good enough for you, fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/119 "2005-09-02T01:47:53Z")
**furnace** , I’ve responded to your thread. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234/120 "2005-09-02T01:57:47Z")
I can’t beleive I need to link to show that roadrunning isn’t illegal. This from Duhaime Police Dept. [http://www.duhaime.org/Police\_station/jogging.aspx](http://www.duhaime.org/Police_station/jogging.aspx) > [@](#): > > Stay on the sidewalk! Unless you’re running with a 200-pound rubber bumper wrapped around your knees, you cannot compete with traffic for space on asphalt. Runners that insist on running right on the road are difficult to see and unpredictable. Runners on busy city streets antagonize all drivers against runners and make it worse for everybody else This quotes the reason for running on the sidewalk as safety, not as a matter of law. BTW, I don’t and wouldn’t run on city streets. > [@](#): > > If you are running or jogging on a road and a car is approaching without taking a wide berth, don’t challenge the car or try to “hold your ground”. Swallow your pride and get off the road even if it means stopping for a moment! Once again, I cite from a police department recognizing road running. > [@](#): > > If you are involved in a near accident or a dangerous or aggressive manoeuvre by a driver, try to remember the license number and report the incident to the police. Unless you are in training for a heavyweight boxing bout, thin and lightly-clad joggers (angry though they may be) are no match for testosterone-overdosed drivers nor is there anything to gain from a shoving match or fisticuffs with a drunk or “mentally-challenged” driver. What’s your license plate number, Fear? > [@](#): > > There are six exceptions to the “stay off the street” rule where the street is better than the sidewalk: an organized road race, a quiet residential or country road, a road without sidewalks, a time of day where traffic is virtually nonexistent, sidewalks which are hazardous because of icy conditions, or to sidestep a sidewalk which presents a temporary hazard greater than running on the street such as an aggressive animal or a construction site. This is the most salient part. Clearly here, the right of runners to run on roads is recognized. Clearly also, it is up to the discretion of the runner to judge the relative hazard of the situation and make a responsible choice. > [@](#): > > The biggest constant threat to urban runners is alleys or driveways from which cars could emerge at any time. A runner must learn to constantly monitor the path before them and anticipate vehicles at every cross-path. Which is why in a situation with trees and impeded vision, I will choose **legally** to run in the street. More on running on the roads. [http://www.rrca.org/](http://www.rrca.org/) According to dipshit there’s 160,000 lawbreakers out there. So, this “running on the roads is illegal” is pure horseshit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-jogging-in-the-street-you-neuticle/319234.md?page=7)