# Quit smoking or live in the car **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 23, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378 "2018-02-23T01:10:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/21 "2018-02-23T22:55:27Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > There are a bunch of problems with “sin taxes”. > > First, all such consumption taxes are, by their nature, regressive - all else being equal, the poor will pay more, proportionally, than the wealthy; that’s because one person, regardless of wealth, is likely to consume only one person’s worth of (say) cigarettes, soda, or fast food. Regressive taxation is often considered a bad thing. > > Second, “sin taxes” are even more regressive than other forms of consumption taxation, because the “sins” being taxed are very often more practiced by the poor than the rich in the first place (the poor are more likely, on average, to smoke and eat fast food than the rich). > > Third, the demand for whatever is being taxed may be ineslastic - that is, the consumer may not be particularly motivated by price alone to switch from one good to the other. So the policy may be effective at raising revenue, but not as a motivator. This is particularly true for addictive drugs such as cigarettes, but also apparently true of bad eating habits. > > Thus, you may end up with a policy that (a) isn’t particularly effective at reducing the disfavored behavior, but that (b) ensures that poor people get poorer. The angel on one of my shoulders is nodding and agreeing with you, while the devil on my other shoulder is saying, “But they could just choose not to smoke. See, this just goes to show that poor people are poor because of their own bad choices.” ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/22 "2018-02-23T23:39:42Z")
I think about 1/3 of the cigs I go through are given away. Since the prices went up you can’t go anywhere without someone bumming smokes. It is hard to sit and have a cigarette and enjoy a cup of coffee and conversation with someone who can’t take their eye off your cigarette pack and you know they can’t afford to buy any. I usually just throw the pack on the table. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/23 "2018-02-23T23:41:32Z")
If cigarettes are $80 a carton in San Diego, that is only about 7 cartons a month before you get to about $600/month. That is about a pack a day each. I don’t know. If that were me I’d either quit, roll my own, switch to a vape pen or buy them online from overseas. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/24 "2018-02-23T23:46:17Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > The angel on one of my shoulders is nodding and agreeing with you, while the devil on my other shoulder is saying, “But they could just choose not to smoke. See, this just goes to show that poor people are poor because of their own bad choices.” 😃 The point, though, is that tax policy shouldn’t have as one of its goals _ensuring_ that bad choices made by the poor are punished with even deeper poverty. 😉 That’s the crazy thing about addiction: it messes with one’s ability to choose rationally. It is very, very tough to escape. It would be an interesting study as to why the poor are more likely to smoke; I’m not sure I’ve ever seen any actual analysis of that (I merely know that surveys have shown that they are). ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/25 "2018-02-23T23:48:38Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > Prohibition via monetary punishments instead of jail or prison is still prohibition. There are issues with governments jacking up tobacco taxes (i.e. using them as a money generator and not using revenues to help people quit smoking). But it’s not “prohibition”. As noted, cost (along with the mountain of evidence of smoking’s detrimental health effects) has had a significant impact in decreasing the number of people who smoke, notably among younger smokers. Both factors will eventually have a similar impact on vaping. It’s just going to take awhile for people to realize that nicotine addiction in any form is not worth it. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/26 "2018-02-24T01:37:21Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > A small rant, if I may. We provide an anonymous backpack lunch program at our local elementary school. At present there are 23 kids who don’t have enough to eat on the weekends, so we provide a stopgap for them by filling a backpack with two lunch meals for the kids to pick up on Fridays. One of those packs always comes back reeking of cigarettes. It’s so bad that the bag has to be left outside for several days and then doused liberally with Lysol before it can be brought into the house. That means that the home it goes to must also smell like an ashtray, which means at least one heavy smoker in the place. I don’t understand a mentality that allows children to go hungry for the sake of buying cigarettes at $7.00/pack. The town where I used to live discontinued this program, because most of the food, and the backpacks too, were being traded for drugs, usually meth. :mad: I agree with post #3 - that this couple probably has other issues on top of this. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/27 "2018-02-24T03:37:18Z")
**Chefguy** - My church puts the meals in gallon-sized ziplock bags. StG ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/28 "2018-02-24T05:31:38Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > A small rant, if I may. We provide an anonymous backpack lunch program at our local elementary school. At present there are 23 kids who don’t have enough to eat on the weekends, so we provide a stopgap for them by filling a backpack with two lunch meals for the kids to pick up on Fridays. One of those packs always comes back reeking of cigarettes. It’s so bad that the bag has to be left outside for several days and then doused liberally with Lysol before it can be brought into the house. That means that the home it goes to must also smell like an ashtray, which means at least one heavy smoker in the place. I don’t understand a mentality that allows children to go hungry for the sake of buying cigarettes at $7.00/pack. > [@StGermain](#): > > **Chefguy** - My church puts the meals in gallon-sized ziplock bags. > > StG The idea is not to stigmatize the kids, or set them up to be threatened and have the food stolen from them. As for the smell, I’ve always made sure the backpacks I bought for Celtling were washable, and they all went through the washer and dryer several times per year. At most, you might need to hang it up to dry, which will take a while, but not several days. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/29 "2018-02-25T17:05:20Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > There are issues with governments jacking up tobacco taxes (i.e. using them as a money generator and not using revenues to help people quit smoking). But it’s not “prohibition”. > > As noted, cost (along with the mountain of evidence of smoking’s detrimental health effects) has had a significant impact in decreasing the number of people who smoke, notably among younger smokers. > > Both factors will eventually have a similar impact on vaping. It’s just going to take awhile for people to realize that nicotine addiction in any form is not worth it. The study posted above claims that increasing taxation on tobacco isn’t a particularly good motivator for decreasing tobacco use. There is no question that tobacco use is decreasing, but the cause is apparently social factors, not price. Tobacco has moved from ‘cool’ to ‘a sad addiction’ in enough people’s minds to make the difference. Without that, increasing price alone would not work, because those hooked on tobacco are significantly addicted, and addictions are notoriously price inelastic (for example: people choosing to pay for smokes rather than live in an apartment - an extreme example, but still). Increase price enough and of course people can’t afford it - but if you increase price that much, you will create a black market. Increasing price is not “prohibition”, but it has a similar impact in once sense: both policies radically increase price (prohibition, because the goods were now illegal). Prohibition failed because increasing price did not do enough to decrease demand - because, by itself, it did not transform the social cachet of drinking alcohol. No one decides whether or not to get hooked on tobacco thinking “well, this is a vice I can afford, once it gets its hooks into me - a pack a day I can swing easily … oh wait, with taxes I can’t actually afford that - so I’ll pass, thank you”. It simply isn’t a rational decision at all. Increasing price of course has _some_ impact - it isn’t _totally_ useless - but it isn’t an effective anti-smoking strategy; it is questionable whether its costs (in being highly regressive) are socially ‘worth it’. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/30 "2018-02-25T20:42:06Z")
Sorry, I disagree. People CAN quit smoking. Lots of people do it. If these people are so poor that they’re living in their car, they’re probably also on Medicaid, so their smoking is likely costing taxpayers further money. Plus smoking makes you less employable–if you’re going into job interviews smelling like smoke, a significant portion of employers are going to pass in favor of someone who doesn’t stink. Is it hard to quit smoking? I’m sure it is. But acting like it’s an insurmountable challenge is bullshit. People need to have some responsibility for their choices. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/31 "2018-02-25T21:35:01Z")
> [@Renee](#): > > Sorry, I disagree. People CAN quit smoking. Lots of people do it. If these people are so poor that they’re living in their car, they’re probably also on Medicaid, so their smoking is likely costing taxpayers further money. Plus smoking makes you less employable–if you’re going into job interviews smelling like smoke, a significant portion of employers are going to pass in favor of someone who doesn’t stink. Is it hard to quit smoking? I’m sure it is. But acting like it’s an insurmountable challenge is bullshit. People need to have some responsibility for their choices. Of course people can, and do, quit. The issue is whether the _specific policy_ of raising taxation on cigarettes is a _good_ way of incentivizing people to quit (or better yet, not start) or a _bad_ way. The actual evidence, posted in the paper cited upthread, suggests it isn’t a particularly _effective_ way, and one with significant downsides (that is, it amounts to a regressive form of taxation). No-one is suggesting, and I quote, “it’s an insurmountable challenge” to get people to quit. The suggestion is that increasing the price isn’t an effective motivator to get people to quit. Changing social attitudes works far better (and the actual impact of increasing price has undesireable side-effects, such as making the poor, poorer). No-one doubts smoking is bad in a whole bunch of different ways. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/32 "2018-02-25T22:10:05Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > > [@Machine Elf](#): > > > > FWIW, I knew a guy who had been hooked on heroin and on cigarettes; he said the cigarettes were harder to quit. > > Did he mention why, apart from readier availability? He didn’t say, and I lost touch with him some years ago. If I had to hazard a guess, I’d say it has a lot to do with society accommodating cigarette addictions to a much greater degree than other addictions. You can’t smoke in the workplace anymore, but there are almost always defined areas (with ash trays) outside of businesses where you _are_ allowed to step out for a smoke break. You can smoke in your car and while walking down city streets, and cops won’t hassle you. It’s getting harder over time. Years ago airlines and airports banned smoking, and more and more cities are banning smoking in restaurants and bars. If businesses stop allowing smoking anywhere on their premises (and offer cessation assistance to their employees), that might convince even more folks quit. ---
**Author:** ![Buttercup\_Smith](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buttercup_smith/32/473_2.png) [@Buttercup\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buttercup_Smith)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/33 "2018-02-25T22:45:46Z")
I quit almost 10 months ago. It will be ten months on March 6th. I was the hardest thing I have ever done and I feel I will always have struggles. I would not go back for all the money in the World. I have never been a heroin addict but can see it being harder. One of the main reasons I quit was the expense and the health affects. I have damaged my health. I know this and feel foolish. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/34 "2018-02-25T22:55:59Z")
I had a friend who quit all his many addictions including crystal meth when he contracted AIDS. This was in the eighties so of course it didn’t save him, but the only thing he could not give up was cigarettes. He was smoking to his final day. The CDC says nicotine is just as addictive than heroin. ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/35 "2018-02-25T23:39:48Z")
I’d like to note for anyone having this particular problem with cigarettes taking a huge chunk out of their budget: If you can’t quit, in addition to vaping being better for your health, smelling better, and tasting better, it’s also way less expensive. I just spent $70 for 4 months worth of nicotine to vape; after taxes and shipping. And I wasn’t even going out of my way to find a good deal. If I were still smoking the brand I used to like, those 4 months would have cost me about $450. And I live in an area (CO) where the taxes aren’t as extreme; a pack here is $4-5, not $7-$10 as in CA or NY. The savings would be even more pronounced for them. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/36 "2018-02-25T23:49:42Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > This is something that has been happening in So Cal with some regularity since the cigarette prices have gone up. I was talking to a guy last night about 60 years old, he and his wife are living in the car because they spend $600.00 a month on cigarettes. I have talked to several others with similar stories. hard to imagine. > > ``` > In my case I am driving an older car than I would normally drive and have skipped a few trips I would have otherwise taken. Such a waste. I am taking a hard look at myself right now. > > ``` Drug addiction’s a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/37 "2018-02-26T00:04:57Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Judging from [the cost of a pack of cigarettes in California,](https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/09/27/the-surprising-cost-of-a-pack-a-day-in-all-50-stat.aspx) it looks like roughly a 1.5 pack-a-day habit for each of them. . That link is very out of date. The tax on cigs went up by $2 a pack last July. > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > .It’s getting harder over time. Years ago airlines and airports banned smoking, and more and more cities are banning smoking in restaurants and bars. That was one of the best things to happen ever. One of the first places that it started in California was the City of Los Angeles. Oh how people whined and moaned. The actual City of L.A. is just a small part of the sprawl. No matter where you all in the city limits, you can be in a different municipality in several minutes if traffic isn’t too bad. The Los Angeles restaurant owners were certain that their places would be empty and people would flock to where they could smoke. In fact, the opposite happened. Now, 25 years later, even most smokers think that smoking inside is disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/38 "2018-02-26T00:56:39Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The suggestion is that increasing the price isn’t an effective motivator to get people to quit. Changing social attitudes works far better (and the actual impact of increasing price has undesireable side-effects, such as making the poor, poorer). [Motivations toward smoking cessation, reasons for relapse, and modes of quitting: results from a qualitative study among former and current smokers - PMC](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4199752/) This study suggests that one of the main motivators for people to stop smoking was the high cost of cigarettes. It seems to motivate at least some people, and provides tax income. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/39 "2018-02-26T15:34:03Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Back in the day, a packet of cigarettes came with every K-ration, C-ration and MRI meal. It was phased out at some point, I think. From what I could see they stopped including cigarettes in 1975. > [@Buttercup\_Smith](#): > > I quit almost 10 months ago. It will be ten months on March 6th. I was the hardest thing I have ever done and I feel I will always have struggles. I would not go back for all the money in the World. I have never been a heroin addict but can see it being harder. One of the main reasons I quit was the expense and the health affects. I have damaged my health. I know this and feel foolish. After a little while I would have fleeting thoughts of how it would be nice to have a cigarette right now but never an actual thought about going back. When I was in Iraq I had half a cigarette and hated it. If I didn’t start back up then I never will. You are past the worst of it. > [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > If heroin was more expensive, would you expect a global extinction of opiate addiction? Cocaine is expensive as hell but coke addicts haven’t disappeared. Why would anyone expect cigarettes to be any different? The fact that heroin is dirt cheap has fueled the heroin epidemic. I’m sure there are people doing coke but I can’t remember the late time I found someone with it. Heroin is everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378/40 "2018-02-26T20:18:02Z")
> [@Renee](#): > > [Motivations toward smoking cessation, reasons for relapse, and modes of quitting: results from a qualitative study among former and current smokers - PMC](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4199752/) This study suggests that one of the main motivators for people to stop smoking was the high cost of cigarettes. It seems to motivate at least some people, and provides tax income. The study is based on a survey of exactly 12 current and 12 former smokers, all in the country of Poland, where relationships between the cost of cigarettes and income may vary somewhat from those in the US. Not sure whether the experiences of 12 former smokers in Poland are really very definitive results for smokers generally. From the source: > [@](#): > > The study was conducted between December 2009 and June 2010. Purposive samples of patients for focus groups and interviews were recruited through the Institute of Sociology of the Nicolaus Copernicus University in Torun and two general practices in Bydgoszcz and Torun, Poland. The advertisements placed at the Institute of Sociology were addressed to anyone willing to participate in the study, irrespective of their age or student status. Advertisements for the research project were also disseminated in the aforementioned two practices, which together provide medical services to around 15,000 patients. Additionally, GPs or nurses informed patients about the opportunity to participate in the project. > > A patient who had been smoking for at least 6 months and was a smoker at the time of the study was defined as a current smoker, in line with the WHO criteria.26 A person who had smoked for at least 6 months, and who had not smoked for at least 3 months prior to the study being conducted, was regarded as a former smoker. The smokers were 18 years old or older. > > Four focus groups, drawn from a sample of 24 patients (twelve current and twelve former smokers), were arranged: two groups of current smokers and two of former smokers. In addition, eleven semi-structured interviews (five with current and six with former smokers) were conducted. A summary of the participants in the focus groups and at the interviews is presented in Table 1. In contrast, this survey, which is (a) larger and (b) based in the US, strongly emphasizes the importance of environment for successful quitting: > **[Factors Associated With Successful Smoking Cessation in the United States, 2000](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1931453/)** > > Objectives. Each year, nearly 2 in 5 cigarette smokers try to quit, but fewer than 10% succeed. Taking a multifaceted approach to examine the predictors of successfully quitting smoking, we identified factors associated with successful quitting so... > [@](#): > > This study may have several important implications for policy. The significant impact of a no-smoking policy in the work-place, also shown by several past studies to be related to cessation, indicates that its implementation will help those who intend to quit to succeed. Currently, 7 US states have comprehensive smoke-free policies for most enclosed workplaces and public settings, including bars and restaurants.63 In one prominent success story, 10 years after passing a statewide smoke-free workplace law, California is experiencing a significant decrease in tobacco use among youths, is limiting exposure to environmental tobacco smoke for many of its citizens, and is helping many smokers to quit through its antismoking programs and policies.64 The PHS Clinical Practice Guideline44 recommends that smokers be counseled to ask for social support from their spouse or partner, friends, and coworkers. The present study suggests that cessation programs need to take a holistic approach. Because smokers’ demographic characteristics, smoking-related behaviors, and daily living and working environments significantly affect their ability to quit, effective programs will need to involve not only smokers who intend to quit but also their family members, friends, and colleagues, and at the same time implementing smoke-free policies that support cessation. Of course some people probably are motivated by cost to quit - but as the economics cite made clear, the relationship between price and motivation doesn’t appear to be all that great. And indeed, such measures provide taxation income - but it is very regressive taxation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-smoking-or-live-in-the-car/809378.md?page=3)