# Quit using "Going forward" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 7, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438 "2008-05-07T15:45:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/61 "2008-05-08T17:27:55Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Yeah, but there are all sorts of X and X-type phrases in English in which the second word is redundant (with apologies to Bill Bryson): cease and desist, spick and span, kith and kin, aid and abet… [/QUOTE] Not true for [cease and desist](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cease_and_desist) [spick and span](http://www.word-detective.com/030201.html#spicandspan), or [kith and kin](http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/20/messages/580.html). Somewhat true for aid and abet, although abet has a more restricted sense of aiding in a crime. (on preview I see Q.E.D. beat me on cease and desist) ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/62 "2008-05-08T17:43:55Z")
I always wondered about “born and bred.” Bred comes first; why isn’t it “bred and born?” ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/63 "2008-05-08T17:44:11Z")
I like henceforth. If I ever make it to the point where I would be subjected to corporate douche-speak then I’d have to use henceforth. In fact, I’d use pretentious words in the traditional sense. Why the fuck not? If everyone else is going to sound like douchebags, you might as well do it with some class. “On a go-forward basis” That one makes me want to end it all. There is no reason at all for this to exist. Why not “in the future?” that simply makes all the sense in the world to me. I briefly tried to pick up some extra cash by listening to corporate conference calls and transcribing them. Actually I didn’t do the transcribing, I checked the transcriptions for errors based on the audio. The things you hear. It’s incredible. What’s hilarious to me is every now and again you’ll get your average British company and they use the same garbage too. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/64 "2008-05-08T17:55:18Z")
Oh, go all the way, **Merkwurdigliebe**. Make it “\*from \* henceforth.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/65 "2008-05-08T18:33:24Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] [quote] **QED** said: You sound bitter. Passed over for a promotion too many times? > [@](#): > > Actually, I’m an engineer. Engineers are useful, but there’s no function in business with a more unrealistically inflated sense of their own importance and competence. There’s a healthy balance to be struck betwene accepting new business ideas, which requires some new terminology, and sounding like the pointy-haired boss and babbling about “leveraging core competencies to pin down price points at the end of the day.” Being resistant to everything management does is just as useless, though. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/66 "2008-05-08T19:16:19Z")
[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe] “On a go-forward basis” That one makes me want to end it all. There is no reason at all for this to exist. Why not “in the future?” that simply makes all the sense in the world to me. [/QUOTE] Because “in the future” is some undefined starting time someday. “Going forward”\* means from right now, into the future, until further notice. “Henceforth” would be fine, and I do occasionally go with “effective immediately”, to get people’s attention. \*“on a go-forward basis” is beyond the pale. ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/67 "2008-05-08T19:56:21Z")
[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe] There is no reason at all for this to exist. Why not “in the future?” that simply makes all the sense in the world to me. [/QUOTE] Welcome to the English language. Part of the fun, many words and phrases that mean virtually the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/68 "2008-05-08T20:34:06Z")
[QUOTE=muttrox] Welcome to the English language. Part of the fun, many words and phrases that mean virtually the same thing. [/QUOTE] This is completely false, untrue, wrong, incorrect and spurious! ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/69 "2008-05-08T20:44:10Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] [QUOTE=catsix] > [@](#): > > **QED** said: > You sound bitter. Passed over for a promotion too many times? > Engineers are useful, but there’s no function in business with a more unrealistically inflated sense of their own importance and competence. > > There’s a healthy balance to be struck betwene accepting new business ideas, which requires some new terminology, and sounding like the pointy-haired boss and babbling about “leveraging core competencies to pin down price points at the end of the day.” Being resistant to everything management does is just as useless, though. I think you just channeled my boss’ boss. Meanwhile, here I am managing perceptions. Which in my office is code for sending e-mails at 2 a.m. so you look important. Yes, I’m serious. Well, at least I’m serious that that’s what it means. In fact, someone who is fortunately not my boss told me that to manage perceptions, I should send an e-mail to “key” people in the evening so they think I’m working. When I started laughing hysterically, he got this blank look on his face, to which I said, “What does your wife think of you managing perceptions?” ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/70 "2008-05-09T00:39:28Z")
> [@](#): > > **RickJay** said: > Engineers are useful, but there’s no function in business with a more unrealistically inflated sense of their own importance and competence. Considering that the engineers are what my company sells, well, I’d say my sense of self-imporantce is pretty grounded in reality. If they don’t have us, they can’t get paid for us, which means the largest part of their business plan is shot. > [@](#): > > Being resistant to everything management does is just as useless, though. None of that requires calling people ‘resources’ as if they are staplers or toasters. There are terms that exist because they describe something that previously did not exist and thus language had no word for it, and then there are terms taht exist because someone had to find newer, better, more impressive way to say something that’s always been said. Saying ‘You can leverage other resources in the global community by reaching out and pinging them.’ is completely useless when you could say ‘Send an email to the Shanghai group.’ This invented pointy haired boss language does not make communication clearer or easier, it doesn’t refine anything, it doesn’t make the meaning of a phrase more precise and it doesn’t improve efficiency. All it does is make a stuffed shirt feel more important. > [@](#): > > **overlyverbose** said: > I think you just channeled my boss’ boss. My boss’s boss told me to ‘reach out to’ my boss and ‘manage up’. I said ‘If you want me to do my boss’s job, then give me his job.’ They gave me more money and asked me not to quit. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/71 "2008-05-09T01:13:45Z")
[QUOTE=CC] This is the most mundane, useless, redundant, mindless expression to enter the language in a long time. I know it must have begun in some business office someplace, where jargon and bizspeak seems to run amok. But I have not seen a usage of the term where it added anything, or where it was in the least bit called for. I also believe that people often adopt a phrase simply because they’ve heard someone use the expression and it sounds like it must be the “in” thing to say. People ought to think about what they say and how they say it, and dropping that expression into their language is an example of the sheep mentality of speakers. From this point on, cease and decist using this pointless expression. I HAVE SPOKEN. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but at the end of the day, it is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/72 "2008-05-09T01:25:32Z")
[QUOTE=Borborygmi] . Historically we have sazzie-womped the floober in case the wonk was crurled, but going forward we expect the wonk to be crurl-free and we can skip this step. Sure, there are other ways to express the same thing as “going forward”, but it’s concise and works fine for me. So there. [/QUOTE] What about “…the wonk was crurled but we can now skip this step.” You don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/73 "2008-05-09T01:32:32Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] “bbs”? What are you, forty? [/QUOTE] What are you, 15? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/74 "2008-05-09T01:33:13Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Apparently a lot longer than that, if post #4 is any indication. 😛 [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: Aaaaa, shit. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/75 "2008-05-09T02:03:50Z")
[QUOTE=Sigmagirl] I always wondered about “born and bred.” Bred comes first; why isn’t it “bred and born?” [/QUOTE] Well, no, the birthing comes first; the breeding referred to is social, not genetic. … Unless I was just whooshed with a neat little pun about coming. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/76 "2008-05-09T12:50:31Z")
[QUOTE=Sigmagirl] I always wondered about “born and bred.” Bred comes first; why isn’t it “bred and born?” [/QUOTE] And why isn’t it “eat your cake and have it too”? ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/77 "2008-05-09T13:12:58Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] None of that requires calling people ‘resources’ as if they are staplers or toasters. There are terms that exist because they describe something that previously did not exist and thus language had no word for it, and then there are terms taht exist because someone had to find newer, better, more impressive way to say something that’s always been said. Saying ‘You can leverage other resources in the global community by reaching out and pinging them.’ is completely useless when you could say ‘Send an email to the Shanghai group.’ This invented pointy haired boss language does not make communication clearer or easier, it doesn’t refine anything, it doesn’t make the meaning of a phrase more precise and it doesn’t improve efficiency. [/QUOTE] Consider the possibility that it actually does have a different meaning. Consider the possibility that management is a art/craft/science in it’s own right with it’s own terminology, just like any other discipline. I am basically a technical person. I joined management ranks a few years back. Some of these words and phrases really are different and really aren’t meant just to be pompous. It is not a perspective I had when I was a low man on the totem pole, my viewpoint was pretty much like everyone else’s on the Pit thread. I have found that there is a reason these phrases get invented. They get invented by someone who sees the world differently than you do and requires different phrasing because of that. And corporations require people with many different worldviews. For example, I find the tendency to call everything opportunities infuriating. They are problems, not opportunites and challenges. However, I work with people who use the word “ownable” and it’s exactly correct for their job. People are resources. It doesn’t mean they are toasters, but when you have $100,000 to spend, there is a choice to upgrade your people or your equipment – there is an equivalency there. In any company over 30 or so people, you can’t think about people as Mike and Jim and Sue, you have to abstract them into resources. The tech people are the same way. In my business, the technical people call them “users”. That doesn’t demean them, it’s a better word for their role as they relate to our techncial issues. My greatest skill in my career is the ability to translate business ideas and concepts to technical teams and vice versa. Both have their share of lingo that sounds absolutely insane to the other. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/78 "2008-05-09T14:00:06Z")
Originally Posted by Sigmagirl > [@](#): > > I always wondered about “born and bred.” Bred comes first; why isn’t it “bred and born?” > Well, no, the birthing comes first; the breeding referred to is social, not genetic. Huh. I was actually thinking about it in conjunction with racehorses, not people; I guess with the Kentucky Derby still in my mind. With people, I guess it makes sense, but I hear of horses “born and bred” to be champions. And that still makes no sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/79 "2008-05-09T14:42:33Z")
> [@](#): > > **muttrox** said: > I am basically a technical person. I joined management ranks a few years back. Some of these words and phrases really are different and really aren’t meant just to be pompous. It is not a perspective I had when I was a low man on the totem pole, my viewpoint was pretty much like everyone else’s on the Pit thread. I have found that there is a reason these phrases get invented. They get invented by someone who sees the world differently than you do and requires different phrasing because of that. And corporations require people with many different worldviews. I spent five years managing a technical department, and I never needed to use bullshit PHB-language to do it. > [@](#): > > People are resources. It doesn’t mean they are toasters, but when you have $100,000 to spend, there is a choice to upgrade your people or your equipment – there is an equivalency there. You upgrade objects like printers or overhead projectors. You educate people. Take your pick. > [@](#): > > In any company over 30 or so people, you can’t think about people as Mike and Jim and Sue, you have to abstract them into resources. We already have a perfectly good term for an abstract group of human beings. That term is ‘people.’ > [@](#): > > The tech people are the same way. In my business, the technical people call them “users”. That doesn’t demean them, it’s a better word for their role as they relate to our techncial issues. The term ‘users’ cannot apply to inanimate objects. It specifically means ‘people who use a particular type of item.’ If you really need to be more specific than ‘people’, you could always say ‘I need to add ten _engineers_ to this project.’ I refuse (and did refuse when I was running the IT department) to ever refer to a person as a resource. > [@](#): > > My greatest skill in my career is the ability to translate business ideas and concepts to technical teams and vice versa. That’s not a skill. Most of us know what the ‘business lingo’ means, but we also recognize it for the useless bullshit that it is. The emperor has no clothes on. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438/80 "2008-05-09T15:15:59Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] I’m an engineer. My attitude toward management is not only expected, but often encouraged. The more surly I am toward weenies in suits, the more money they keep giving me. [/QUOTE] It’s weird, isn’t it? It’s like they actually respect people who have the balls to tell them to their faces that they don’t know as much as they pretend to. Not that it’s ever going to get me an actual _promotion_, but the swollen salary makes up for quite a bit. [QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] Ooh, then you’ll enjoy \*\*Cervaise’s \*\* classic [Reach out (and finger my stinking dungeye)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=339102) [/QUOTE] Hey, thanks for the love. Every time somebody references one of my past posts, I literally get an eighteen-inch erection. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quit-using-going-forward/448438.md?page=5)