# Quitcher bitchin' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 28, 2000, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527 "2000-12-28T16:53:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/61 "2001-01-04T15:52:56Z")
**Primaflora** , I’m 26. And, of course, I didn’t say that things get easier. But I do think that if you are able to grow personally, you should be able to keep pace with the growing difficulty of problems. Of course, home-schooling and autistic children make your life a great deal more difficult than mine. Good for you that you seem to be handling it so well. (And still you have to time to post here! :)) I dunno; maybe a lot of people don’t enlarge their skill base as they mature. But the world definitely expects you to. I allow myself some time, even if it’s five minutes, every day for a little bit of introspection. That seems to keep things in perspective… ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/62 "2001-01-04T19:52:49Z")
I was responding to Dropzone’s post. Dropzone seems to understand what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/63 "2001-01-04T20:29:03Z")
**Diane** said: > [@](#): > > Using your logic, wouldn?t life be hardest for infants? After all, they must learn to talk, crawl, use the potty, every day is like the first day of work. If I interpret you correctly, are you saying that responsibilities and problems increase as we age and are better able to handle them? I have no problem with this and even agree with you, totally. But then you contradict yourself to saythat teenage years are the hardest. Wouldn?t all years be equally hard as we mature to adapt to our problems? Well, I don’t think it’s a linear progression, with the skill/problem lines keeping equal with each other. There are some variations. For instance, when I was four, I had learned a lot of coping mechanisms, but had very little responsibility. So my life was pretty easy. When I was 14, the responsibility level went up, but the skill level was still low. It’s not the level of responsibility that’s hard, but the skill/problem gap. And I do think that the gap is at its largest during adolescence. I suspect many child psychologists do, too, but I’m just talking out of my ass there. That said, babies have a lot of stuff to learn, and very few skills with which to do it. They have one giant, indomitable advantage, though: They’re sponges. That makes everything easier. > [@](#): > > With few exception, the livelihood and even the survival of other beings is not placed upon your shoulders. You have the luxury of making decisions that will only affect yourself. The consequences are yours and yours alone. As a responsible single parent, I can?t wake up tomorrow and decide to quit my job because I have mom and dad to clothe, feed, and shelter me. I would say that when you have kids, the gap I referred to earlier gets larger. It probably comes close to the teenage gap. But you, as an adult, are expected to grow in your skill level to compensate for the increased responsibility. If you have more than one kid, you know what I’m talking about. Were the first few months of kid 2 as hard as the first few of kid 1? And don’t you handle things like puke all over your work clothes and 3 a.m. feedings better now than you used to? You should. If you don’t, something’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/64 "2001-01-04T21:24:01Z")
I think it is a naive view of life to say that we grow to meet the challenges and that if we don’t cope better as we grow older, there’s something wrong. That’s not been my experience - while I have more tools in my coping tool kit it doesn’t mean that I necessarily face bad stuff any easier than I did when I was a teen. It’s still rough. I don’t remember this culture of whinging when I was a teen. What is with the idea that certain life stages are the worst/most difficult to deal with and that gives permission to whine? And compete in bitching competitions ;). I sincerely hope that all these struggling whinging teens do find this the worst they ever face. I wish that my hideous teen years were the worst I had ever had to deal with. Necros, I was waiting for someone to take a shot at me posting here if my life is so fraught ;). It’s my sanity maintenance, some pretence at interaction with adults on a daily basis. I read fast, I type fast. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/65 "2001-01-04T21:37:55Z")
Necros A question - Do you have kids? If not, from what experience are you drawing your opinion? What in a **typical** teenager’s life do you feel is so rough? Getting up each morning and going to school? Dealing with parents? Keeping their room clean? Having a date for Friday night? Life may not always be a piece of cake and I admit it can get pretty rough at times, but “toughest years”? Hardly. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/66 "2001-01-04T21:46:50Z")
> [@](#): > > I sincerely hope that all these struggling whinging teens do find this the worst they ever face. My thoughts exactly! I would kiss you, but I don’t wanna step on Lex’s toes. I think we are doing teens a grave diservice by making them believe that this is the toughest time of their lives. One day the reality of life will creep up and smack them right in the face and they too will see that it wasn’t true. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/67 "2001-01-04T23:09:19Z")
I wouldn’t go back to the teenage years for anything. It’s all a matter of perspective. I can look back at the trials and tribulations of the teen years now, and say that it wasn’t all that bad, but at the time it was absolutely horrid and I was very unhappy. The problems I faced then seemed huge and all encompassing, and they caused me tremendous pain and stress. From the perspective of an adult, they seem minor, but I can clearly remember the pain and angst of those years, and the many nights I lay awake, my heart rent from incidents that now seem negligible. Teenagers are by nature myopic, and few have the perspective and maturity to be able to see that in the future, things will be much different. Where they are NOW, the pain and stress that they feel are comperable to an adult who’s worried about paying the mortgage. Emotional responses to stress and pain are the same, no matter what the cause. Sometimes we think that others don’t have the pain and stress that we do, but I betcha even rich folks like Bill Gates and Anna Nicole Smith stay up late worrying, cry, and have situations that are just as painful to THEM as your situations are for you. Problems that you and I might actually laugh at. “Gee, I wish that was all I had to worry about!” But to them, it’s something that they cry themselves to sleep over. I’m sure a man in a third world country would think that we are stupid for worrying over things like our boss being angry at us when he has to worry about being shot by guerillas and finding enough food to keep his kid alive. Again, perspective. Circumstances may change, but emotional turmoil remains the same. I’m a bit distressed at the lack of sympathy that a lot of people have shown toward these “whining teenagers.” The pain they feel is very real, dispite the fact that you think it to be invalid because they don’t have the same problems and circumstances that adults do. Maybe your teenage years were different, and problem/stress free, or maybe you’ve just forgotten how it felt. But for me, I remember how my “little problems” seemed to be huge, and I can remember being crushed beneath their weight. Unhappiness does not need to be validated, and it only makes a person feel worse to have someone say that they’re stupid for feeling such pain when someday they’ll have a mortgage to pay. Teens have the same emotions that we do, only their environment presents them with different problems to react to. Honestly, I cannot say that I worry or agonize more today than I did when I was a teenager. I simply stress over different things. Teenage suicide has been on the rise over the last decade. Perhaps if we looked at their “little problems” and remembered how we felt when we were teens, we would have more sympathy, and be better able to deal with teenage depression. As I said, it IS all a matter of perspective. I think that it’s wrong to say that a person is not entitled to feel something because you do not think that their stress/angst is valid because your circumstances are “worse” as an adult. Yes, they will face larger things when they become adults, but perhaps teenage pain and stress are nature’s way of training us to deal with adult problems. ---
**Author:** ![Krispy\_Original](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ec9cab/32.png) [@Krispy\_Original](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krispy_Original)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/68 "2001-01-04T23:21:10Z")
Insightful post Lissa! ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/69 "2001-01-04T23:28:46Z")
**Primaflora** said: > [@](#): > > I don’t remember this culture of whinging when I was a teen OK, let me ask now: How old are _you_? **Diane** said: > [@](#): > > A question - Do you have kids? If not, from what experience are you drawing your opinion? Nope, no kids. I do have six younger brothers and sisters, the yougest of which is 20 years younger than I am. I’ve done a lot of the getting up at night/changing diapers/driving to soccer practice/nursing sick little ones thing. > [@](#): > > What in a typical teenager’s life do you feel is so rough? Getting up each morning and going to school? Dealing with parents? Keeping their room clean? Having a date for Friday night? Let me ask you the same question I asked **Primaflora** above. How old are you? On the People Pages you look so young. 🙂 More importantly, how old are your children. Seriously, though, teenagers today have a different set of problems, or, if not different, at least expanded to a larger group, than they did even when I graduated from high school, eight years ago. I am actually suprised by what my sibs have to go through. For example, I don’t think I knew anybody who was into cutting (sure, there were guys with Chinese AKs in their cars, but that’s a different matter). The “seamy underbelly” of things that even a typical high school student has to deal with these days is darker and more pervasive than it used to be, IMHO. If you think all today’s teens have to worry about is a date of Friday or getting grounded, you should talk to more teenagers. I mean, of course, others besides **Garfield** , who has a lot of “clubs” to go to. ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2001, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/70 "2001-01-04T23:52:01Z")
Necros I am 37. Probably more relevant to the discussion is that I have a 20 yo teenage step daughter so yeah I have seen the teen years up close and personal recently. And no, honestly I don’t think she had it any rougher than I did. It all looked fairly similar to how it was 20 years ago. Academic pressure, possible STDs, social problems - they are not new issues. She got through it, she whined a bit, we found solutions. She’s doing OK now. I think my issue (and where I am coming off as unsympathetic) is the relentless whinging about how damned awful it is having parents, doing homework, doing extra curricular activities and having a social life. The point I am attempting to make is that while teen years might not be a bowl of cherries, just getting out from under the parental thumb isn’t going to magically transform life into a bowl of cherries. If one is struggling and feeling overloaded, then NO MATTER WHAT FUCKING AGE YOU ARE it is time to develop some coping skills and strategies. Sitting upon one’s arse and bitching ain’t gonna fix it at any age. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/71 "2001-01-05T01:59:09Z")
Well, my fifth post and I’m already in the Pit. Sigh. But, I’m pretty amazed at how unfeeling some of the posts in here are. No matter how mature teenagers seem sometimes, they are still kids, and sometimes react with kids’ feelings to the situations they’re in, which can get pretty adult. Of course it’s a confusing, difficult, emotional time. I’m appalled at the smugness expressed by a couple of posters here. Diane said: No one is saying that the teenage years are easy, they are not, but to claim that they are the hardest is a huge load of crap. With few exception, the livelihood and even the survival of other beings is not placed upon your shoulders. Who placed this load upon your shoulders? From what I recall, having children is pretty much voluntary. I don’t have kids; I don’t want that responsibility. I admire those that accept that responsibility with good grace, but whining about the duties you have to perform as a parent is no more valid than Garf mentioning his busy schedule. You both have chosen your burdens. Teenagers may have a certain amount of freedom of choice, but have lives which are more or less dominated by parents. There are decisions which they are not empowered, and for the most part not qualified, to make. Adults can choose where to live, who to associate with, what to do with their bodies, without consulting anyone. This freedom and responsibility has made my adult life far richer and more fulfilling than my teenage years, not to mention far less painful. If you’ve chosen to be a parent, great. Enjoy it. It’s a nice hobby. But don’t come around looking for sympathy, while at the same time denigrating children. What sort of parent does that? And to any teenagers reading this, it does get better. Really, it does. Put up with it until you’re legal, then go build yourself a life you like. Andy ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/72 "2001-01-05T02:45:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by kevja \* > > **Oh where does that rage come from?** > > I think it’s the Pit talking. I think I got what you said the first time, assuming you were making a rather catty remark. Since I like catty, I laughed. And got your point. \*\* Nope, it’s just Lex…pure and simple. No environment could create that rage, it’s just Lex 🙂 -Sam ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/73 "2001-01-05T04:01:52Z")
You know, you folks, young and old, are making me happy I barely remember yesterday, much less my teens. AND regret I started this thread. :rolleyes: Here’s what I remember: Teens: Depressed, nearly suicidal. Fucked up parents. Twenties: Depressed, nearly suicidal. Fucked up marriage. Crappy apartment. Thirties: Depressed, nearly suicidal. Fucked up marriage plus children. Plumbing and roof problems. Forties: Suicidal, then medicated. Marriage coming together or falling apart–not sure which and it depends on the day. Epileptic kid with daily seizures. Plumbing and roof problems. As I recall, I don’t wish to live ANY of it over. Shit, I’m not even looking forward to Spring, when I have to fix the roof. Again. But I look forward to Tuesday, when the epileptic kid starts with a new doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/74 "2001-01-05T04:46:59Z")
Ok, I’m sorry for the delay. I just got home. To those who say I have NO idea what the hardships and responsibilities an adult has to go through, you are right. I did not mean to imply that as a teenager, I have MORE problems than you do. I certainly NEVER said that the teenage years were the hardest. I SAID I probably have more than you did AS A TEEN. No, I don’t know that for sure either, and I shouldn’t have said it. I am sorry. My point is, just like I can’t know what an adult’s problems are, YOU can’t know how it is to be a teenager in today’s society unless you are one. I don’t care if you have a teenage kid, you haven’t experienced it. ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/75 "2001-01-05T05:06:58Z")
Using your line of logic though, Garfield, I can say that just maybe it was tougher when I was a teen. You can’t know it wasn’t, you haven’t experienced it. I think we can be conceded at least some insight into what it is like to be a teenager. Really? I am totally willing to concede that my father’s adolescence was tougher than mine - I wasn’t living in a displaced person’s camp at 15. But ultimately, you do have to figure out how to deal with it all. Why when I was a teenager we were so poor, we couldn’t afford a roof to our mouths! ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/76 "2001-01-05T13:09:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lissa \* > \*\*I wouldn’t go back to the teenage years for anything. > > \*\* Amen, sister! If it weren’t for dope, I never would of survived them. Horrible, horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/77 "2001-01-05T15:29:04Z")
I resent the implication that I am an uncaring, smug, unsympathetic adult who does not understand how hard it is being a teenager. My kids, who surprising ADMIT that I am a damn good mom, would beg to differ. Their many friends who call me “mom” and are able to talk to me because I understand what their parents don’t, would beg to differ. The kids I canceled when I worked the suicide hotline for more than two years, would beg to differ. My son’s old juvenile parole officer (and now a very good friend of mine) who worked so well with me in attempts to get my kid straight (another story mention on another thread) and has made comments that I missed my calling working with adolescents, would beg to differ. The street kids and the children of homeless veterans that I work with every freakin’ week as part of my duties as the Homeless Veteran Coordinator, would beg to differ. Don’t make assumptions you can’t back up. **Again, I have never claimed that teenagers have it easy, in fact I agreed that life could get pretty rough for them.** The nightly news reports school shootings every few months. Incidentally, my daughter was in this exact type of situation a few years ago in junior high (Syracuse Jr. High in Syracuse, Utah for those who wish to verify my claim) when a boy jumped onto the stage during lunch hour, fired a gun, and held the entire lunch room hostage (my daughter included). He later let the girls leave then eventually everyone else but two boys he used as a shield. The SWAT Team was able to rescue the kids and arrest the boy without anyone getting hurt. I do understand that teen suicide is on the rise (two of my daughter’s friends, one friend of my son, and a neighbor boy within the last 4 years) but it certainly is not the epidemic some try to make it out to be. In fact, it appears that “life is toughest” for those over 65 years old. [http://www.iusb.edu/~jmcintos/SuicideStats.html](http://www.iusb.edu/~jmcintos/SuicideStats.html) I am almost certain that these senior citizens would argue that “life is toughest” as they attempt to live on a fixed income, try to be a caregiver while their own health is failing, the guilt of putting a spouse in a care center, not being physically or mentally able to do the things they enjoy, and losing your spouse, family, and friends to death. I am not trying to tell these teenagers to suck it up because their life isn’t that hard. It is. What I am disagreeing to, and have since my first post, is the blanket statement that the “teenage years are the toughest.” This statement implies that everything before the teen years and everything after will be easier than what they are going through now. THAT is bullshit. While YES, teen years are hard, life does NOT come easier when you are grown. The point I was trying to make with my examples are that with age, your life becomes even more stressful and you have many more responsibilities without the safety net of mom and dad to fall back on. Yes, as you get older you gain more coping skills, BUT life will never be easy and it is a very real possibility that your teenage years will NOT be the toughest years of your life. Mrvisible - Isn’t 99.9% of everything in our lives voluntary? ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/78 "2001-01-05T15:59:59Z")
I wrote: > [@](#): > > the kids I canceled Oh fer fucksake, what a nimrod. That should have read “counseled”, although I could make a few smart assed comments if I were feeling creative. Stupid spellcheck. ---
**Author:** ![hflathead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecb155/32.png) [@hflathead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hflathead)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/79 "2001-01-05T17:17:54Z")
since I’m already tied up for this life, will you marry me in the next one? Drop, just fixed my roof, got the daughter (17) out of circles of care for a suicide threat, and the 13 year old out of the police station the other nite for shoplifting/switching tags. He had over $100 in his pocket. Now I’m in suspense waiting for the wife and 15 year old to complete the cycle! later, Tom. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2001, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527/80 "2001-01-05T17:31:56Z")
> [@](#): > > will you marry me in the next one? It depends, do we have to have kids? 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quitcher-bitchin/47527.md?page=5)