# quotation, supposedly from Caesar, all over the web **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 11, 2002, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917 "2002-09-11T03:57:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fifteen\_Iguana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Fifteen\_Iguana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fifteen_Iguana)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/1 "2002-09-11T03:57:48Z")
Today someone sent me a message containing the following quotation: "Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. "And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. “How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.” -William Shakespeare Well, my bogus-detector went off like crazy. I searched on the web and found the citation on fifty or more websites, usually attributed to Julius Caesar (the man, not the play). One Latin discussion website pointed out a few flaws with attributing it to Big Julie. Like: what word were they translating “patriotism,” since that isn’t found in Latin? Like: why the big “I am Caesar?” It wasn’t a title in JC’s time, just a name. It would be like saying “And I am Bush,” to select a moniker at random. Like: Roman armies weren’t big on drums, etc. (This according to the Latin experts, not me). The quotation did appear once on the Straight Dope board, in a message from Obidiah on [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2013145#post2013145). So, my question: can anyone find a source for this quotation? Shakespeare? Julius Caesar? Sid Caesar? Can anyone find a citation of it that dates back before September 2001? Mucho thankies. Fifteen Iguana ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/2 "2002-09-11T04:46:18Z")
[This guy is skeptical](http://www.shenandoahvalley.com/cgi-bin/wwwboard/messages/24.html) > [@](#): > > Caesar neither said that nor did that. Armies were assembled by granting soldiers pillage rights, pensions and land in conquered lands upon retirement. The concept of patriotism among the populace as we know it today did not exist, nor did individual rights in the modern sense. It was essentially a class/caste system with no rights other than those assigned by the state or purchased through wealth. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/3 "2002-09-11T05:22:27Z")
Well, it’s definitely not from Shakespeare’s play _Julius Caesar_. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/4 "2002-09-11T06:00:01Z")
One of the reasons I’m sceptical is that, whenever I see the quote, it’s always the same, and uses slightly complex words where there are simpler ones…like “infused” rather than filled, and words like embolden. If this were an actual quote, you’d see more diverse translations…it looks like, in this case, people are copying the quote from each other. Also, the term “double-edged sword” bothers me, because I don’t think it was a common Roman phrase…I think the metaphor is newer. For one thing, Romans didn’t tend to use edged swords. Roman swords had blunt edges and sharp points…they fought by stabbing. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/5 "2002-09-11T06:23:41Z")
I just scanned through Caesar’s Gallic War Commentaries, one of his two major works, and the quotation is not from there. Throughout that text, Caesar always refers to himself in the third person. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/6 "2002-09-11T06:30:18Z")
And I just scanned through Caesar’s Civil Wars, his other major work, and the quotation is not from there either. As with the Gallic Wars, Caesar always refers to himself in the third person. By the way, it is fascinating to read eyewitness accounts of battles fought more than 2000 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/7 "2002-09-11T06:36:41Z")
And I just scanned through Caesar’s Civil Wars, his other major work, and the quotation is not from there either. As with the Gallic Wars, Caesar always refers to himself in the third person. By the way, it is fascinating to read eyewitness accounts of battles fought more than 2000 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/8 "2002-09-11T07:36:25Z")
This came up about half a year ago. Several people were skeptical but nothing was conlclusive. Certainly it doesn’t appear this is a direct quote from work by Caesar. It’s harder to say that he was quoted in another source, especially since Caesar doesn’t necessarily mean ol’ Julius. I did submit the quote to snopes and asked them to check it out but it doesn’t appear as though they have done anything on it. If more people submit this to them they may get around to it. ---
**Author:** ![Dijon\_Warlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9a28c/32.png) [@Dijon\_Warlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dijon_Warlock)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/9 "2002-09-11T09:16:31Z")
THIS IS NOT A SERIOUS ANSWER BECAUSE I DON’T HAVE ONE. Maybe it was [Julia Caesar](http://www.knightayton.co.uk/julia_caesar.html). Just maybe. I doubt it, really. ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/10 "2002-09-11T11:46:52Z")
Nevertheless, a sound sentiment! Oh, and just so this isn’t solely a hijack - there were a number of Caesars (8 - without checking), so it would be worth seeing if it was one of the others. My guess is that it wasn’t Tiberius or Caligula (I think he was a Caesar, although I know he was nephew of Tiberius so maybe not). Could be a Claudius…? ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/11 "2002-09-11T16:54:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Martiju \* > \*\*Nevertheless, a sound sentiment! > > Oh, and just so this isn’t solely a hijack - there were a number of Caesars (8 - without checking), so it would be worth seeing if it was one of the others. My guess is that it wasn’t Tiberius or Caligula (I think he was a Caesar, although I know he was nephew of Tiberius so maybe not). Could be a Claudius…? \*\* I believe “Caesar” is more like a title. It’s the progenetor of “king” and “czar”. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/12 "2002-09-11T22:14:37Z")
“Ceasar” was Gaius Julius’ nickname, and I think (emphasis think) it meant “redhead”, just like the Cicero in Marcus Tullius Cicero’s name was a nickname that meant “chickpea”. After Julius Ceasar, the name “Ceasar” became a title for whoever was emperor. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/13 "2002-09-11T22:17:16Z")
Make that “Caesar” throughout. Sheesh! ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/14 "2002-09-12T00:45:09Z")
What makes me suspicious is the number of hackneyed expressions and cliches that are crammed into this “quote”: \*bangs the drums of war whip … into a patriotic fervor double-edged sword narrows the mind fever pitch blood boils \* “Infused” is a strange word choice also. And what does “the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry” mean? Shouldn’t it say “no need to seize”, not “no need in seizing”, which doens’t make sense. ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/15 "2002-09-12T02:39:28Z")
Makes sense if you’re assuming your audience will equate “stilted English” with “authentic Latin.” ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/16 "2002-09-12T02:58:04Z")
Sounds like a speech from a second rate movie. I can just about picture Edgar G. Robinson giving it: _Yeah, I’m Caesar, see!_ ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/17 "2002-09-12T03:28:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pravnik \* > \*\*“Ceasar” was Gaius Julius’ nickname, and I think (emphasis think) it meant “redhead”, just like the Cicero in Marcus Tullius Cicero’s name was a nickname that meant “chickpea”. After Julius Ceasar, the name “Ceasar” became a title for whoever was emperor. \*\* Actually Caesar was his third name, which acted kind of like out middle name. Originally Romans had 2 names but eventually the a third was added to distinguish provide more distinction. His full name was Gaius Julius Caesar (or Iulius to be most precise). They were especially useful due to the Roman habit of naming their kids for the number of their birth like Quintus and Sextus for fifth and sixth born. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/18 "2002-09-12T11:38:00Z")
Ah, third name, nickname, potato po-ta-to. I mean it’s an informal name. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/19 "2002-09-12T11:55:20Z")
Well, I should qualify: it had its origins as an informal name like our nicknames, but it eventually came to be passed down like other family names. Caesar’s dad was also Gaius Julius Caesar. So in that, yes, I can see how it’s like our middle names. ---
**Author:** ![johncole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@johncole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johncole)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917/20 "2002-09-12T12:09:35Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Martiju_ > \*\*there were a number of Caesars \*\* There were twelve Caesars, according to Suetonius, but only six had the name Caesar. Suetonius stopped at twelve because that brought him up to _his_ present day. (Julius, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero, Galba, Otho, Vitellus, Vespasian, Titus, Domitian). Gaius Julius Caesar was the son of Gaius Julius Caesar and Marcia, and was never Emperor (he was assassinated because the conspirators feared that he wanted to be Emperor). Gaius was his personal name or praenomen. Julius was his last or surname. “Caesar” was his cognomen, a way of nicknaming his branch of the Julii family The Julian dynasty started with Augustus and ended with Nero. Galba, Otho, & Vitellus were one-offs, different families, no dynasty. Vespasian (who built the Colosseum - the Flavian Amphitheatre) started the Flavian Dynasty, which ended with Domitian. [try this link](http://www.roman-emperors.org) …oh yes, and the quote in the OP belonged to none of them - try reading Robert Graves introduction to Suetonius about the difficulty of English/Latin translation when words change their meaning and usage so rapidly. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quotation-supposedly-from-caesar-all-over-the-web/127917.md?page=2)