# Quote about impotence of literature to create social or political change? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 11, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-about-impotence-of-literature-to-create-social-or-political-change/274252 "2004-11-11T19:32:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-about-impotence-of-literature-to-create-social-or-political-change/274252/1 "2004-11-11T19:32:06Z")
I once heard a quote that said that if no novel had never been written, our world would not be appreciably different—or something to that effect. Can anybody identify the quote or the author or guide me to it? Much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-about-impotence-of-literature-to-create-social-or-political-change/274252/2 "2004-11-11T19:36:25Z")
Oh I thought Charles Dickens and Shakespeare were two? ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@Kaitlin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlin)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-about-impotence-of-literature-to-create-social-or-political-change/274252/3 "2004-11-11T21:03:56Z")
Don’t know if this is in any way related to what you’re asking about, but I heard on Writer’s Almanac this morning (transcript [here](http://writersalmanac.publicradio.org/) ) regarding Kurt Vonnegut: > [@](#): > > _Slaughterhouse-Five_ was published at the height of the Vietnam War, and the book made Vonnegut a hero among the war protesters. Vonnegut said it was an anti-war book. But he also said, “Anti-war books are as likely to stop war as anti-glacier books are to stop glaciers.” ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-about-impotence-of-literature-to-create-social-or-political-change/274252/4 "2004-11-11T21:49:48Z")
Well, as I recall, _Uncle Tom’s Cabin_ was not without its effects… ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-about-impotence-of-literature-to-create-social-or-political-change/274252/5 "2004-11-11T22:08:58Z")
What about Upton Sinclair’s _The Jungle_ and its effects on the meat-packing industry as far as sanitary working conditions and worker’s rights? [http://www.socalhistory.org/Biographies/upton\_sinclair.htm](http://www.socalhistory.org/Biographies/upton_sinclair.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-about-impotence-of-literature-to-create-social-or-political-change/274252/6 "2004-11-11T22:33:32Z")
There’s a subtle distinction at work here. The question of whether novels _have_ had an effect in the world is not exactly the same as asking whether the world _would be_ different without novels. It’s pretty easy to argue that the Civil War would have happened exactly as it did even if Harriet Beecher Stowe were illiterate and that plenty of muckraking journalists would have had just as much or more effect on corporate practices even if Upton Sinclair were a meatpacker and not a writer. We can never know for sure, of course. One of the problems of arguing counterfactuals is that any one is exactly as likely as any other; plausibility is just an illusion of our actual experience. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-about-impotence-of-literature-to-create-social-or-political-change/274252/7 "2004-11-11T22:54:49Z")
For want of a book to prop up the wobbly table, the table was lost; For want of a table, the general was unable to formulate a coherent strategy; For want of a coherent strategy, the battle was lost; For want of the battle, the war was lost; For want of the war, the horse was lost; For want of the horseshoe… [sub]Oh, wait, nemmine[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Eureka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/74df32/32.png) [@Eureka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eureka)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-about-impotence-of-literature-to-create-social-or-political-change/274252/8 "2004-11-12T02:51:54Z")
It wasn’t literature exactly(and therefore is probably not the quote you are looking for) but I read an article about the importance of archives recently\* in which the author pondered the question of what would happen if there were two societies, one that saved all the records and one that saved none. The author suspected that the two societies would be more alike than different. If I recall correctly, I think the author was mostly advocating that archivists should be selective in what they save, but also that archivists should not obsess over their choices because in the long run it won’t matter whether the archivist preserves something mundane, repetitive and useless and fails to save something unique, historic and valuable to future researchers. \*Recently, meaning I read it in the last three months, not it was written in the last three months. If someone posts that they would like a more accurate quote (or at least a proper citation), I’ll try to remember to look it up tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-about-impotence-of-literature-to-create-social-or-political-change/274252/9 "2004-11-12T13:57:43Z")
Thanks for the quotes. Unfortunately I’m pretty sure that it wasn’t the Vonnegut one of related to archiving. Bummer. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-about-impotence-of-literature-to-create-social-or-political-change/274252/10 "2004-11-12T14:15:01Z")
Quote about impotence of literature to create social or political change? :smack: Oh! You meant _impo **r** tance_ This whole thread makes much more sense now that I realize you were asking about the _importance_ of literature and not the _impotence_. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-about-impotence-of-literature-to-create-social-or-political-change/274252/11 "2004-11-12T14:35:14Z")
> [@The Chao Goes Mu](#): > > This whole thread makes much more sense now that I realize you were asking about the _importance_ of literature and not the _impotence_. No, I meant impotence; i.e. the person who said the quote was saying that novels really aren’t effective at creating social or political change. ---
**Author:** ![Ezekiel25\_17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@Ezekiel25\_17](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ezekiel25_17)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-about-impotence-of-literature-to-create-social-or-political-change/274252/12 "2004-11-12T14:38:00Z")
> [@The Chao Goes Mu](#): > > Quote about impotence of literature to create social or political change? > > :smack: Oh! You meant _impo **r** tance_ > > This whole thread makes much more sense now that I realize you were asking about the _importance_ of literature and not the _impotence_. Actually I think impotence is a better fit for the disscussion. We’re talking about literature’s “Lack of power” to create social change, but the end results are similar enough that it’s of little impo **r** tance ---
**Author:** ![Ezekiel25\_17](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@Ezekiel25\_17](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ezekiel25_17)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-about-impotence-of-literature-to-create-social-or-political-change/274252/13 "2004-11-12T14:39:10Z")
:smack: Now, moving on to theimpo **r** tance of using preview… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-about-impotence-of-literature-to-create-social-or-political-change/274252/14 "2004-11-12T14:49:05Z")
Aaaaaah! I see now. Woops. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-about-impotence-of-literature-to-create-social-or-political-change/274252/15 "2004-11-12T15:14:20Z")
While tangential, here is CSLewis (from _The Screwtape Letters_) on how writing a book can be a cop-out for actually taking life- or world-changing actions: > [@](#): > > let him, if he has any bent that way, write a book about it; that is often an excellent way of sterilizing the seeds which the Enemy plants in their souls.