# Quvenzhane and made up black people's names **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 12, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948 "2013-01-12T08:55:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/221 "2013-01-18T03:02:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Hell, that’s too common to count. > > I mean stuff like “Aoibhean,” “Saorise,” “Aednat,” “Aine,” or “Niamh.” On Saturday my daughter’s invited to a play date with “Aoife.” Aoibheann (ehveen), Saoirse (Searshah), ok Aednat is rare to me, Aine (On-ya), Niamh (Neev) is v. common , and Aoife (Eef-fah). Aoife is possibly the most common girl’s name in Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/222 "2013-01-18T05:39:38Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > > > “Sean”? > > Hell, that’s too common to count. But it wasn’t, once upon a time. If Americans can learn that, they ought to be able to learn other Irish pronunciations. One of my daughters was almost named Saoirse. Super-cool name: means _Freedom!_ But Saoirse Ronan got famous a few years later, and people would probably think we got it from her. OTOH, they’d be more likely to have learned how to say it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/223 "2013-01-20T01:47:03Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Aoibheann (ehveen), Saoirse (Searshah), ok Aednat is rare to me, Aine (On-ya), Niamh (Neev) is v. common , and Aoife (Eef-fah). Aoife is possibly the most common girl’s name in Ireland. The most popular name for baby girls in Ireland is “Emily,” followed by “Sophie,” “Emma,” “Grace,” and “Lily,” at least as of 2011. “Emma” almost certainly is the most common name possessed by Irish girls of all ages under 18. I doubt things have changed much since. If someone in Canada, a place where almost nobody speaks Gaelic (including these parents; they like this stuff because they’re into LARP and that sort of thing) want to give their child a name 98% of people will find bafflingly unpronounceable or unspellable, hey, have at it, but don’t complain when, you know, people cannot spell or pronounce it. At least the names African-Americans are so often made fun of for using can be read in the language they speak. So why’re they made fun of? It’s because they’re black. No other reason. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/224 "2013-01-20T03:04:00Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > You’ll probably hear “It’s a fairly common name, and my parents liked it.” If you asked a girl named Mallory where her name came from, she’d probably respond, “It’s a fairly common name, and my parents liked it.” But I dunno, she might say, “Well it means ill-fated, or unlucky. Why?” I could probably tell you the full etymology of both my birth name, and my chosen name…but, yes, if asked ‘where they came from’, I’d say ‘I was named for my grandfather’, or ‘I took it from the name of a character from my favourite comic book, who had a storyline I very much related to’. The latter has a bonus for this thread in that I use the Scottish Gaelic spelling, which…well, if you’ve ever seen Gaelic, it’s…interesting trying to get English speakers to pronounce it right (except for very common ones, like Sean), and, to the extent anybody knows my name at all, it’s by the Irish spelling, which is slightly different. (Hell, it’s been mentioned in this thread a couple times, so I’ll say it - it’s Siubhan (Siobhan in Irish).) ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/225 "2013-01-20T03:35:47Z")
Welp, I can’t defend [this](http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8f4uvtPq51qzs532o1_1280.jpg)one. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/226 "2013-01-20T05:23:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If someone in Canada, a place where almost nobody speaks Gaelic (including these parents; they like this stuff because they’re into LARP and that sort of thing) want to give their child a name 98% of people will find bafflingly unpronounceable or unspellable, hey, have at it, but don’t complain when, you know, people cannot spell or pronounce it. > > At least the names African-Americans are so often made fun of for using can be read in the language they speak… People sometimes get stumped by unfamiliar names even if they follow rules of the language. My daughter’s name is Caileigh. Most often, we hear “Cuh-lee-uh”. Sometimes “Cuh-lay”. I don’t get upset, but I also don’t think it’s all that hard, and most of these guesses use more obscure or nonexistent English pronunciation rules than her actual name does. C - hard c: cat, corn, call, creep ai - long a: aim, aid, ain’t, paid, fail l - l: leaf, leap, love, lord ei - long e: ceiling, conceit, perceive, receipt, receive gh - silent: daughter, neighbor, weight, dough Cail - like Gail, but with a c leigh - like Janet Leigh, Jennifer Jason Leigh, a very common spelling of “Lee” before 1980 or so. Caileigh - “Kaylee” These are not unfamiliar sounds or spellings in American English. They’re not actually “weird”. But putting them together throws people. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/227 "2013-01-20T06:19:57Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Welp, I can’t defend [this](http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8f4uvtPq51qzs532o1_1280.jpg)one. Still not a lemonjello or oranjello! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/228 "2013-01-20T06:48:19Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > These are not unfamiliar sounds or spellings in American English. They’re not actually “weird”. But putting them together throws people. The same is true of my Greek-Sicilian last name. _Anything_ that isn’t plain whitebread Anglo-Saxon throws people. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/229 "2013-01-20T12:13:31Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > People sometimes get stumped by unfamiliar names even if they follow rules of the language. > > My daughter’s name is Caileigh. Most often, we hear “Cuh-lee-uh”. Sometimes “Cuh-lay”. I don’t get upset, but I also don’t think it’s all that hard, and most of these guesses use more obscure or nonexistent English pronunciation rules than her actual name does. > > C - hard c: cat, corn, call, creep > ai - long a: aim, aid, ain’t, paid, fail > l - l: leaf, leap, love, lord > ei - long e: ceiling, conceit, perceive, receipt, receive > gh - silent: daughter, neighbor, weight, dough > > Cail - like Gail, but with a c > leigh - like Janet Leigh, Jennifer Jason Leigh, a very common spelling of “Lee” before 1980 or so. > > Caileigh - “Kaylee” > > These are not unfamiliar sounds or spellings in American English. They’re not actually “weird”. But putting them together throws people. You should have gone with the Irish spelling, Céilí. 🙂 It’s a lovely name. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/230 "2013-01-20T12:16:24Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The most popular name for baby girls in Ireland is “Emily,” followed by “Sophie,” “Emma,” “Grace,” and “Lily,” at least as of 2011. “Emma” almost certainly is the most common name possessed by Irish girls of all ages under 18. I doubt things have changed much since. > > If someone in Canada, a place where almost nobody speaks Gaelic (including these parents; they like this stuff because they’re into LARP and that sort of thing) want to give their child a name 98% of people will find bafflingly unpronounceable or unspellable, hey, have at it, but don’t complain when, you know, people cannot spell or pronounce it. > > At least the names African-Americans are so often made fun of for using can be read in the language they speak. So why’re they made fun of? It’s because they’re black. No other reason. What is LARP? I dunno about what the most popular names are here, I don’t really give a fig, was just pointing out that those Gaelic names weren’t imagineered whole-cloth, that’s all. FWIW I think it’s perfectly cromulent to make up your kids’ names if you want, but as with obscure Gaelic names in Canada you’re gonna wind up explaining pronunciations etc. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/231 "2013-01-20T12:39:26Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > You should have gone with the Irish spelling, Céilí. 🙂 It’s a lovely name. We considered it, actually! But my keyboard doesn’t have diacritical marks, and that would just be soooooo tedious. 😃 We often just tell people that Caileigh is “the Irish way to spell it” even though it isn’t. Makes it go down easier, for some reason; people don’t care much about truth, they just want an explanation. To be honest with you, I don’t even exactly recall how that first “i” snuck in there, only that it looks and feels right for her. Her dad was teaching an Irish history course at the time, so it’s probable that the feel for the spelling was inspired by his reading lots of Ireland related stuff, even though it’s not an actual Irish spelling (that I know of.) LARP is [Live Action Role Playing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_action_role-playing_game) - think Dungeons and Dragons, only with costumes and giggles and running around in the woods hitting each other with sticks. Good times. Totally dorky, but good…uh…_craic_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/232 "2013-01-20T15:07:30Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > I worked with this black girl named Siobhan, pronounced, of course, Shavon. I wonder how many people snickered in ignorance at her name. Well, “Shavon” isn’t all that far off the correct pronunciation (well, I take no position on “correct” pronunciation – I mean the way most Irish or Irish-American people would pronounce it). And Siobhan is indeed the correct spelling. I don’t get it. Why would people snicker? ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/233 "2013-01-20T15:12:09Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Hell, that’s too common to count. > > I mean stuff like “Aoibhean,” “Saorise,” “Aednat,” “Aine,” or “Niamh.” On Saturday my daughter’s invited to a play date with “Aoife.” Being the grandchild of immigrants from Ireland, and still being in regular contact with plenty of relatives in Ireland, and with some of them making the move to this country every year, none of those names sound all that strange to me. I’ve got plenty of second and third cousins named Siobhan or Fionualla or Rionach or Declan or Cahal. Not to mention the more common (here in the US) but just as Irish Brendan or Kevin or Nora or Bridgid. And so on. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/234 "2013-01-20T15:13:40Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Well, “Shavon” isn’t all that far off the correct pronunciation (well, I take no position on “correct” pronunciation – I mean the way most Irish or Irish-American people would pronounce it). And Siobhan is indeed the correct spelling. I don’t get it. Why would people snicker? Because they don’t know that the correct pronunciation of Siobhan is Shavon. I was once corrected by someone when I pronounced Catriona like Katrina. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/235 "2013-01-20T18:40:29Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Because they don’t know that the correct pronunciation of Siobhan is Shavon. I was once corrected by someone when I pronounced Catriona like Katrina. How did the person pronounce it if not “Katrina”? “Kat-ri-owna”? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/236 "2013-01-20T18:57:56Z")
Yes. “It’s a common mistake,” I was told. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/237 "2013-01-20T19:33:55Z")
My black friend, an English professor, was with her toddler daughter at a department store. An elderly white woman was complimenting her on the cuteness of the daughter, and asked what her name was. My friend answered, “Tessa.” The woman responded, “You people come up with the most \*unusual \*names!” ---
**Author:** ![Dublin11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Dublin11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dublin11)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/238 "2013-01-20T19:51:16Z")
I know a woman called Catriona who goes by a shortened version of her name and she spells it Riona. She’s 100% Irish and she lives in Ireland and in Ireland Catriona is pronounced as Kuht - ree-na. Occasionally with a person who is a native speaker of Irish, you might get another discernible -uh- syllable in there, Kuht-ree-uh-na. Yet apparently this Riona’s name is pronounced Ren; rhyming with when or Ben or hen. Don’t ask me why. Not got the first idea. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/239 "2013-01-20T19:57:30Z")
> [@Dublin11](#): > > I know a woman called Catriona who goes by a shortened version of her name and she spells it Riona. > She’s 100% Irish and she lives in Ireland and in Ireland Catriona is pronounced as Kuht - ree-na. Occasionally with a person who is a native speaker of Irish, you might get another discernible -uh- syllable in there, Kuht-ree-uh-na. > > Yet apparently this Riona’s name is pronounced Ren; rhyming with when or Ben or hen. > Don’t ask me why. Not got the first idea. Makes about as much sense as Peggy being a nickname for Margaret. [Why is Peggy the nickname for Margaret? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/764/why-is-peggy-the-nickname-for-margaret) Personally, I blame older brothers tormenting their little sisters with made up names that somehow stick. That’s my theory. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/240 "2013-01-20T20:18:12Z")
If you’ve read that column then you know there’s nothing nonsensical about that. It came about though a standard English process of nickname formation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948.md?page=13)