# Quvenzhane and made up black people's names **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 12, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948 "2013-01-12T08:55:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/61 "2013-01-12T21:52:36Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > However, if you don’t want anyone to have any preconceptions about your kid whatsoever, can I suggest the name Jordan? It’s consistently popular, but not overwhelmingly common, and I gotta say, in all my years teaching, I have not encountered any other name that is so gender, race, and class neutral. I’ve had black, white, and Hispanic kids with the name, rich kids, poor kids, boys and girls. “Jordan” on a resume could literally be anyone but a first-generation Asian. The name Jasmine has a similar broadness of appeal, but it’s gendered, and there’s really no standard spelling. That sounds right for Jordan, but not Jasmine. According to [this](http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2470131&page=1), Jasmine and 3 other spellings of it make up 4 of the top 20 “blackest” girl names. ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/62 "2013-01-12T21:57:03Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I hope that you also gave her a middle name that is not creatively spelled. Or at least, make sure the name is easy to pronounce. Understood. There should be an option that’s easy for the average speaker of the language that you’re living in to say. > [@bienville](#): > > We as a culture have far greater respect for adorable little girls than we do for Icelandic volcanos. Heh. Yeah, as the child of an Icelandic immigrant, I cringed any time someone mentioned Eyafjallajökull in the news. :smack: > [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > My first name can be pronounced several ways by looking. It doesn’t look the way it is pronounced. I ended up learning to see all the variations as my own name. My teachers said it one way, my classmates and friends another, my bosses and co-workers still another. My family always called me by my much more common middle name. My name is probably far less unsual, but I _insisted_ on making sure that people pronounced it the way I wanted it pronounced. (It’s Natasha, not Natalia, Natalie, Latasha, Natanya or NutASHuh that folks tried to pronounce it as.) Perhaps I was inflexible about it because the folks who would appellate me incorrectly would do it for months and months at a time; you are \*exceedingly patient \*for accepting folks mispronouncing your name on a regular basis. (I also have a middle name that is regularly misspelled because it’s an ethnic name that most folks don’t use in the States.) > [@Zjestika](#): > > I prefer made-up names over clever mispellings. Either way it’s embarassing to have to ask for someone to have to re-pronounce or spell their name. Agreed. I have to wonder why folks want to deliberately make it difficult for their children to get their names correctly spelled on forms. My only real exception to the “made up names are totally okay by me” rule is that I hate the name Nevaeh. Meeting a person with that name or a person who named their kid that is like meeting all those glurge emails wrapped up in a box of stupid with a poorly tied bow. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/63 "2013-01-12T21:58:19Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > That sounds right for Jordan, but not Jasmine. According to [this](http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2470131&page=1), Jasmine and 3 other spellings of it make up 4 of the top 20 “blackest” girl names. What does it say about me that I hate just about every name on that list, black or white? I think I in general don’t like names that seem like you just picked out the first thing you saw in the baby name book. ---
**Author:** ![nashiitashii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@nashiitashii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nashiitashii)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/64 "2013-01-12T22:02:37Z")
**MOL** , I completely agree with you. Most of the names are insipid, emasculating, or just plain overplayed for me at this point. I don’t want a return of the Robert and Susan club, but I’d like some new names that don’t seem like they’re piggybacking off the top 10 names from 2003. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/65 "2013-01-12T22:06:13Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > The first time you posted [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15212934&postcount=125)in a thread, I laughed it off with you. Now I see you are serious. Wow. You really think that is someone’s real name. That facebook page. You think it reflects a real name. Oh, no.Pssst!. Look at the whited-out message beside the link. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/66 "2013-01-12T22:06:19Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > That sounds right for Jordan, but not Jasmine. According to [this](http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2470131&page=1), Jasmine and 3 other spellings of it make up 4 of the top 20 “blackest” girl names. I’ve taught a lot of little white and Hispanic girls named Jasmine (or variations thereof). It’s a common black name, but it’s ALSO a common white and Hispanic name. I think it’s just generally popular. I think it’s _Aladdin_. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/67 "2013-01-12T22:06:48Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Second, as a teacher, I’ll say that, at least by high school kids just become their names and no one thinks about it. Plenty of people have distinctive names. Names are a pretext for bullying or teasing. The teasing is more of a problem when they are younger. Especially if you give them a name that rhymes with a bodily function. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/68 "2013-01-12T22:18:31Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > That said, I do think names can be class and race signifiers, and I think the class implications do have the potential to impact how people see your kid. I work with a lady whose name is something like La’Pwecious. It’s not that her name suggests she’s black, it’s that her name suggests that her mom was 16 when she was born. I think that such a name could be a disservice to a person. Yep, that’s the biggest problem with certain kinds of black names: “What kind of parent is most likely to give a child such a distinctively black name? The data offer a clear answer: an unmarried, low-income, undereducated, teenage mother from a black neighborhood who has a distinctively black name herself.” > **[A Roshanda by any other name.](https://slate.com/business/2005/04/a-roshanda-by-any-other-name.html)** > > Which is more dangerous: a gun or a swimming pool? How much does campaign spending really matter? What truly made crime fall in the 1990s? These are... Even if you take race out of it, a name that’s associated with coming from that background really can’t help you. All names are ultimately made up. Yet, if your primary goal is to be creative when naming your child, get a cat and call it something funny. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/69 "2013-01-12T22:26:44Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I’ve taught a lot of little white and Hispanic girls named Jasmine (or variations thereof). It’s a common black name, but it’s ALSO a common white and Hispanic name. I think it’s just generally popular. I think it’s _Aladdin_. I wouldn’t be surprised to meet a white Jasmine or anything, but that’s what the list says and I assume it comes from real data. My daughter’s name is also on the list which surprised me when I originally saw this story in 2006 because it’s never been a common name on the SS database, but it’s an awesome name so that’s okay. My boyfriend’s name is on the list too but that’s no surprise. My name is never on any list and I like that. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/70 "2013-01-12T22:38:42Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised to meet a white Jasmine or anything, but that’s what the list says and I assume it comes from real data. > > My daughter’s name is also on the list which surprised me when I originally saw this story in 2006 because it’s never been a common name on the SS database, but it’s an awesome name so that’s okay. My boyfriend’s name is on the list too but that’s no surprise. > > My name is never on any list and I like that. I wonder if “sounding” means they gave people a long list of names and that those were the ones people identified as “white” names or “black” names most consistently. So it’s not really about what people actually name there kids, but what impression people have of those kids. I wish they’d redo that study with class indicators rather than race indicators: I bet Andre and Asia get called back a lot more than Synasty or Willie do, and I also suspect that Connor and Abigail get called back more often than Duane and Tammy do. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/71 "2013-01-12T22:46:10Z")
Jasmine is perfectly good for a girl who’s white, black, or hispanic: as long as she is a stripper. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/72 "2013-01-12T22:54:33Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I wonder if “sounding” means they gave people a long list of names and that those were the ones people identified as “white” names or “black” names most consistently. So it’s not really about what people actually name there kids, but what impression people have of those kids. Perhaps. Or maybe it wasn’t a very long list. Otherwise I can’t really see “Xavier” for example being considered one of the blackest names. Or my daughter’s name, for that matter. All the white names seem really white though, except Cole seems pretty neutral to me. Does anyone have the book Freakonomics to see where they’re getting this? > [@](#): > > I wish they’d redo that study with class indicators rather than race indicators: I bet Andre and Asia get called back a lot more than Synasty or Willie do, and I also suspect that Connor and Abigail get called back more often than Duane and Tammy do. I don’t think of Duane as being lower class. ---
**Author:** ![Beastly\_Rotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@Beastly\_Rotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastly_Rotter)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/73 "2013-01-12T22:59:51Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Yep, that’s the biggest problem with certain kinds of black names: > “What kind of parent is most likely to give a child such a distinctively black name? The data offer a clear answer: an unmarried, low-income, undereducated, teenage mother from a black neighborhood who has a distinctively black name herself.” > [A Roshanda by any other name.](http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/2005/04/a_roshanda_by_any_other_name.2.html) > > Even if you take race out of it, a name that’s associated with coming from that background really can’t help you. Get back to that stripper pole, Condoleeza, you got babies to feed. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/74 "2013-01-12T23:09:08Z")
One caveat from the owner of a creatively spelled name… I agree that we should never get upset (at least initially – I’ve had an aunt by marriage in the family for thirty years who still cannot spell my name right, but that’s a rant for another thread) when people misspell our names. Now mispronouncing it is something else entirely. If you’ve had to patiently explain how your name is pronounced repeatedly, after the twentieth time, that person is either willfully ignorant or certifiably an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/75 "2013-01-12T23:09:35Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Perhaps. Or maybe it wasn’t a very long list. Otherwise I can’t really see “Xavier” for example being considered one of the blackest names. Or my daughter’s name, for that matter. All the white names seem really white though, except Cole seems pretty neutral to me. > > Does anyone have the book Freakonomics to see where they’re getting this? > I don’t think of Duane as being lower class. I should have used a different name. I think Duane is lower class for white people but not black people. It’s one of those names that was simply rural in the early part of the century. It’s sort of morphed into a mainstream name for black people but stayed a pretty country name for white people. What’s interesting is that thinking about this, I really think girls’ names much more often carry class implications than boys’ names. It may reflect the way there is more variety in girls’ names in general. ---
**Author:** ![dirty\_hippie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@dirty\_hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirty_hippie)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/76 "2013-01-12T23:18:06Z")
I legally changed my middle name to something I’m sure no one has. If I told you what it is, I bet you would not believe that I actually had considered it as a first name. Good thing I didn’t 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/77 "2013-01-12T23:22:29Z")
> [@Beastly\_Rotter](#): > > Get back to that stripper pole, Condoleeza, you got babies to feed. Is your point that it’s possible to achieve something important for someone who has that type of name? If so, nothing I have said contradicts it. If you think I’ve said that having such a name makes it impossible, you suck at reading/making inferences. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/78 "2013-01-12T23:30:05Z")
> [@dirty\_hippie](#): > > I legally changed my middle name to something I’m sure no one has. > > If I told you what it is, I bet you would not believe that I actually had considered it as a first name. Good thing I didn’t 🙂 I hate these name threads because I understand people not wanting to put their name on here (I don’t either) but then we end up with all these teasers ☹ ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/79 "2013-01-12T23:32:43Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > One caveat from the owner of a creatively spelled name… I agree that we should never get upset… I have a common name, yet quite a few people misspell it. I don’t really mind “Emilie”, since that’s the French spelling, but I’ve seen people spell my name “Emely” and “Emilly.” What?! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948/80 "2013-01-12T23:35:17Z")
While I understand that you don’t want to give your child a name that will get them lost in a sea of like-named classmates, that still leaves you plenty of room for familiar names. Take a look at [the top 1000 baby names](http://www.ssa.gov/oact/babynames/#ht=1) for some year, and skip down about 100 places on the list. You’ll see plenty of names that you recognize right away and which everyone knows how to spell, but which are used by less than 0.2% of the male or female population. And just going through my close relatives, I found that my sister, my mother, four of my aunts, one of my uncles, and one of my grandmothers weren’t on the list at all, thus having names shared by less than 0.0304% of the population, while all still being perfectly recognizable and familiar names. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quvenzhane-and-made-up-black-peoples-names/646948.md?page=5)