# QWERTY alphabet **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469 "2010-05-14T20:09:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![skearton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@skearton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skearton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/1 "2010-05-14T20:09:09Z")
I think we should change the alphabet to go along with the QWERTY format. It would be a huge change, but more beneficial for future beings? Any thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/2 "2010-05-14T20:11:31Z")
The order of the alphabet is entirely arbitrary. You may reorder any way you like. Why would reordering to QWERTY be beneficial? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/3 "2010-05-14T20:12:08Z")
No. It wouldn’t help people learn to type, if that’s your implication. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/4 "2010-05-14T20:16:04Z")
I’d like to counterpropose the AZERTY alphabet. Given that every language, and sometimes every country, has its own keyboard layout (including non-qwerty ones), there’s no point in obsoleting the tons of dictionaries and encyclopedies already printed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/5 "2010-05-14T20:36:06Z")
I’d like to add symbols for SH, TH, and CH, along with extra vowels to represent long and short pronunciations (i.e. CAT vs CAKE, HOP vs HOPE). And a pony. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/6 "2010-05-14T20:49:37Z")
> **[Aha! Jokes \> English Jokes \> Europe English](http://www.ahajokes.com/eng011.html)** > > English and language jokes and humor. > [@](#): > > The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the EU rather than German which was the other possibility. > > As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty’s Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five year phase-in plan that would be known as “Euro-English”. > > In the first year, “s” will replace the soft “c”. Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard “c” will be dropped in favour of the “k”. This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan have 1 less letter. > > There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome “ph” will be replaced with “f”. This will make words like “fotograf” 20% shorter. > > In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be ekspekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e"s in the language is disgraseful, and they should go away. > > By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing “th” with “z” and “w” with “v”. During ze fifz year, ze unesesary “o” kan be dropd from vords kontaining “ou” and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. > > After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi to understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru! And zen world! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/7 "2010-05-14T21:39:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’d like to add symbols for SH, TH, and CH, along with extra vowels to represent long and short pronunciations (i.e. CAT vs CAKE, HOP vs HOPE). > > And a pony. Duplicate letters that represent the same sounds are ridiculous. So K should be used every time we need a hard C, and S when we need a soft C. That leaves C free for the SH sound. X for KS or Z sounds is silly, so X can go back to its old role of the CH sound. Q is just useless, but we could use it for some obscure phoneme like the ZH in azure. Or get rid of it. We’d bring back Thorn (Þ and þ) for hard TH and and Edh (Ð and ð) for soft TH. Vowels are easy, just put a hat on them. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/8 "2010-05-14T22:03:16Z")
Before we alphabetize by keyboard, we should change the keyboard to something more sensible like [Dvorak](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard). ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/9 "2010-05-14T22:07:09Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Vowels are easy, just put a hat on them. But I thought there were like thirteen vowel sounds in english, or something? Including ones that aren’t tied to specific letters, like ‘uh’. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/10 "2010-05-14T22:15:31Z")
If we’re going to reorder the alphabet, it would make more sense to do so on a phonetic system – vowels first, voiced consonants paired with their voiceless analogues (“T” right after “D”), etc. Or something like that. See the organization of the [International Phonetic Alphabet](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/IPA_chart_2005_png.svg) used by linguists. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/11 "2010-05-14T23:31:04Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > But I thought there were like thirteen vowel sounds in english, or something? Including ones that aren’t tied to specific letters, like ‘uh’. a, e, i, o, u, y, á, é, í, ó, ú, ý, ä, ë, ï, ö, ü, ÿ. There we go, 18 vowels. Assign hats to phonemes at random, just like we already do. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/12 "2010-05-14T23:39:59Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Before we alphabetize by keyboard, we should change the keyboard to something more sensible like [Dvorak](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard). Heretic! [Colemak](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Colemak) is clearly the better layout. But seriously, QWERTY works for me since it’s familiar. I don’t need to type at light speed since for all serious typing I spend much more time _thinking_ anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/13 "2010-05-15T01:26:35Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Before we alphabetize by keyboard, we should change the keyboard to something more sensible like [Dvorak](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard). Been debunked. **By Cecil.** > **[Was the QWERTY keyboard purposely designed to slow typists?](https://www.straightdope.com/21341398/was-the-qwerty-keyboard-purposely-designed-to-slow-typists)** " \*But by then, the story goes, people were used to the QWERTY keyboard and we’ve been stuck with it ever since, even in the face of allegedly superior alternatives such as the Dvorak keyboard. Advocates say research proves the Dvorak is easy to learn and makes typing faster and more accurate. But it’s never made much headway because of the crushing power of standards, even stupid ones. Baloney, say the authors of the article you enclose, S.J. Liebowitz and Stephen Margolis. They point out that (1) the research demonstrating the superiority of the Dvorak keyboard is sparse and methodologically suspect; (2) a sizable body of work suggests that in fact the Dvorak offers little practical advantage over the QWERTY; (3) at least one study indicates that placing commonly used keys far apart, as with the QWERTY, actually speeds typing, since you frequently alternate hands; and (4) the QWERTY keyboard did not become a standard overnight but beat out several competing keyboards over a period of years. Thus it may be fairly said to represent the considered choice of the marketplace. " \* ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/14 "2010-05-15T01:34:11Z")
ASCII encoding pretty much means the alphabet order will never change. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/15 "2010-05-15T14:03:53Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > The order of the alphabet is entirely arbitrary. Are you sure it’s _entirely_ arbitrary? Presumably the order chosen stems from some specific origin, and had a motivation of some kind. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/16 "2010-05-15T14:36:35Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > The order of the alphabet is entirely arbitrary. Arbitrary? Nonsense. It’s in alphabetical order. OK, seriously, Cecil has addressed the reason: [Why is the alphabet in alphabetical order? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2696/why-is-the-alphabet-in-alphabetical-order) ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/17 "2010-05-15T14:46:47Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Arbitrary? Nonsense. It’s in alphabetical order. > > OK, seriously, Cecil has addressed the reason: [Why is the alphabet in alphabetical order? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2696/why-is-the-alphabet-in-alphabetical-order) Right. Not necessarily arbitrary, but as Cecil stated, there’s no real reason for it to have to be in that order. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/18 "2010-05-15T14:51:41Z")
Better change the keyboard layout than the alphabet order. In any case keyboards will probably go extinct in a century or two. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2010, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/19 "2010-05-16T05:05:03Z")
I don’t care whether you change the alphabet . . . so long as it still rhymes. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2010, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469/20 "2010-05-16T05:28:08Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I don’t care whether you change the alphabet . . . so long as it still rhymes. Yes, but _which_ melody do we sing it to? I much prefer Sesame Street’s Monsterpiece Theater theme… ABCDE CDEFG HIJK LMNNNNOP QRSTU RSTUV TUVandWXYZ aandAYYYBEEECEEE… Actually, on looking for YouTube videos to illustrate this, I found out that it wasn’t the Monsterpiece Theater theme. Although I could swear I remember it as that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qwerty-alphabet/539469.md?page=2)