# R.E.M. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 2, 2015, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074 "2015-05-02T05:19:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/61 "2015-05-06T16:41:39Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I don’t see The Smiths having been discovered for the first time in a widespread way. Other than maybe college stations, who plays their stuff? AFAICT, they remain one of those bands you occasionally hear _about_, but rarely if ever hear. > > 20 years from now, more people in their 20s will recognize R.E.M.'s music than will recognize The Smiths. (I’d put a longer timeline on it, but I’d like to be around to know whether I was right or wrong. :)) In 20 years time you’ll know you were not even wrong 🙂 I know I (foolishly) mentioned the Smiths as a point of comparison, I didn’t mean that you could actually try and compare the two on a like for like basis - that would be an error of scale. REM’s stature is not in doubt - I don’t rate them in the top drawer myself, but you can clearly make the argument. Their influence and legacy is a good discussion because it’s harder to quantify than other bands with a more polarised sound / image. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/62 "2015-05-06T16:53:47Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yeah, just looking over the critical reception, I see the UK press via NME’s best albums of all time list has two REM albums in the Top 100, with _Automatic for the People_ at 67 and _Murmur_ at 69. (Then again, they have The Strokes _Is This It?_ at number 4, which while a solid album, I hardly think it ranks anywhere near that high.) Rolling Stone’s list from a few years back has _Murmur_ at 197, _AFTP_ at 247, and _Document_ at 470. Not too shabby, but seems the UK press is more a fan than the US press. > > Now, granted, it’ll be more interesting to see what the critical evaluation is 20 years from now, but at least the popular music press is still quite respectful of their work. I’m kind of astonished that _Murmur_ is so low. For many years it was always near the tops of these sorts of lists. So yes, it will be interesting to see if there is a rediscovery and reassessment some years down the road. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/63 "2015-05-06T16:56:43Z")
And I will not fight with Smiths fans. Those guys are great too. I hope both bands are rediscovered by teenaged archaeologists of the future, digging through dusty record bins. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/64 "2015-05-06T17:22:27Z")
A band can be pretty dire and still be highly influential, yet it still does not make them great. I won’t deny they got lots of airtime, sold lots of plastic, plenty of t-shirts and its hard to imagine that most musos have not heard their material and been influenced by it, this still does not make REM great. I cannot deny they are rather wealthy and that I will never be as popular in anything I ever do - still, I can’t connect with their material, heck I’ve even picked out Madonna and ABBA stuff I like better - this from someone who does have a large amount of Indy music in his collection. I find ‘Losing my religion’ an odd sort of concept for a song, how does someone who loses his temper and become so angry get to sound so drearily miserable - it should have been called ‘Losing my gravestone’ it is just so depressing. There just isn’t any joy, vicarious living, passion, or innovation - I honestly do not get it, and never have. On the other hand, there are no absolute duffer songs, they all seem to sit in a mediocre dimension, never reaching up, outward or even taking risks. I can go with a band that takes a risk that it can’t pull off, REM never did that - if you don’t take a chance then you can’t climb the heights. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/65 "2015-05-06T17:35:30Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > I’m kind of astonished that _Murmur_ is so low. For many years it was always near the tops of these sorts of lists. So yes, it will be interesting to see if there is a rediscovery and reassessment some years down the road. I’m just as astonished that _Automatic for the People_ is that low. While _Murmur_ hits more the sweet spot for the kind of music I tend to like, I’d think _AFTP_ would rank high on a Rolling Stone list. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/66 "2015-05-06T17:36:28Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > A band can be pretty dire and still be highly influential, yet it still does not make them great. > > I won’t deny they got lots of airtime, sold lots of plastic, plenty of t-shirts and its hard to imagine that most musos have not heard their material and been influenced by it, this still does not make REM great. I cannot deny they are rather wealthy and that I will never be as popular in anything I ever do - still, I can’t connect with their material, heck I’ve even picked out Madonna and ABBA stuff I like better - this from someone who does have a large amount of Indy music in his collection. > > I find ‘Losing my religion’ an odd sort of concept for a song, how does someone who loses his temper and become so angry get to sound so drearily miserable - it should have been called ‘Losing my gravestone’ it is just so depressing. > > There just isn’t any joy, vicarious living, passion, or innovation - I honestly do not get it, and never have. On the other hand, there are no absolute duffer songs, they all seem to sit in a mediocre dimension, never reaching up, outward or even taking risks. > > I can go with a band that takes a risk that it can’t pull off, REM never did that - if you don’t take a chance then you can’t climb the heights. Of course, music taste is subjective and opinions are like assholes and all that, so it’s pointless to argue about it. But regardless of your expereince of their music, to say there is no “passion” in any of their music is on-it’s-face ludicrous, as is “never taking risks.” Those statements make your opinions about REM easily ignored, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/67 "2015-05-06T17:52:33Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > I can go with a band that takes a risk that it can’t pull off, REM never did that - if you don’t take a chance then you can’t climb the heights. I don’t know about that. When I listen to _Murmur_, I’m doing so a bit retroactively: I hadn’t really started listening to R.E.M.'s work until maybe the 2000s, while going through my post-punk phase (well, it’s more than a phase.) Comparing it with other albums at the time, it sounds quite fresh and different to me, combining the drive of post-punk with the jangle of a band like the Byrds. Wonderful melodic bass work there by Mike Mills. It’s one of my favorite albums for just listening to the bass. And then it has these atmospheric slow to mid-tempo numbers with piano, vibraphone, etc. I wasn’t listening to them at the time (I was only 8), but I hear a unique sound for the time, so I don’t think it’s fair to say they didn’t take any chances. They certainly mixed things up on their debut LP vs their previous release, the _Chronic Town_ EP. Hmmm…re-listening to _Murmur_ after all these years is perhaps upping my lukewarm estimation of REM. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/68 "2015-05-06T18:01:41Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Hmmm…re-listening to _Murmur_ after all these years is perhaps upping my lukewarm estimation of REM. 🙂 On those early albums, the production work of Mitch Easter and Don Dixon is a big part of the sound. If you like that vibe, you might also give a listen to the album [Cypress](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lUJzDNHYic) from Mitch Easter’s band, **Let’s Active**. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/69 "2015-05-06T18:09:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I can think of at least [one latter-day band](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR9DjdMrpHg) that’s rediscovered them. Maybe the reason for your post is that you already knew this, but the similarity of the Decemberist’s _The King Is Dead_ to R.E.M. is more than just influence: Peter Buck played guitar on three of the songs, including [Calamity Song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJpfK7l404I). That opening riff, and in fact the whole song, could easily be vintage R.E.M. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/70 "2015-05-06T18:31:38Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > On those early albums, the production work of Mitch Easter and Don Dixon is a big part of the sound. > > If you like that vibe, you might also give a listen to the album [Cypress](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lUJzDNHYic) from Mitch Easter’s band, **Let’s Active**. Good points. Another band from Athens in a similar vein is Pylon. They formed a bit before R.E.M. and were a big part of the early Athens music scene. R.E.M. later recorded a version of their song “Crazy”. “Crazy” “Stop It” [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cgez1nZKGoM/hqdefault.jpg "Pylon - Stop It") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgez1nZKGoM) ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/71 "2015-05-06T18:40:38Z")
Missed edit window… > **[Pylon (band)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pylon_(band))** > > Pylon was an American new wave/post-punk band from Athens, Georgia. The band's danceable sound, a blend of new wave, post-punk, jangle pop, alternative rock and funk rock, influenced the Athens music scene and the 1980s American pop underground. AllMusic wrote that Pylon's "role as elder statesmen of the alternative rock explosion is unassailable". > Pylon was formed in 1979. The four members of Pylon were art students at the University of Georgia in Athens. Guitarist Randall Bewley and bass guita... ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/72 "2015-05-06T20:24:08Z")
Oh, well, as long as we’re trotting out music generated by that same group of Georgia-NC contemporaries, I think Don Dixon is playing on this catchy-as-hell song. It’s by a buddy of his, anyway. This song (which is not at all in the style of R.E.M.) will feature prominently in the soundtrack if and when I ever direct a quirky independent movie: [Buddha, Buddha](https://youtu.be/WQ_hkPmfjDg) - **Rick Rock** We now return you to your regularly-scheduled R.E.M. thread. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/73 "2015-05-06T21:17:29Z")
My favorite 80’s band, by a long shot. I love those IRS albums, and believe that the songs sound fresh (at least to my ears). Here are a handful of songs that I adore still. [Harborcoat.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-F1Og41uK4) [Sitting Still.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0cf_T4g64M) [Cuyahoga.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TBXsxBDHSg) [7 Chinese Brothers.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYvPUXuSZoo) [Begin the Begin.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rePNg6MmdEQ) [These Days.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv_78in5iGE) [I Believe.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-2o-DH61Xc) [Can’t Get There From Here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCvmS9Cb42w) [Laughing.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz7u-9ZHOgE) ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/74 "2015-05-07T00:16:32Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Oh, well, as long as we’re trotting out music generated by that same group of Georgia-NC contemporaries, I think Don Dixon is playing on this catchy-as-hell song. It’s by a buddy of his, anyway. This song (which is not at all in the style of R.E.M.) will feature prominently in the soundtrack if and when I ever direct a quirky independent movie: > > [Buddha, Buddha](https://youtu.be/WQ_hkPmfjDg) - **Rick Rock** > > We now return you to your regularly-scheduled R.E.M. thread. I always liked this Don Dixon song. It used to get quite a bit of airplay on the college radio station. “Praying Mantis” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/3VOwoWlyDpE/hqdefault.jpg "Don Dixon "Praying Mantis" 1985") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VOwoWlyDpE) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2015, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/75 "2015-05-07T06:15:10Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Like you, I have a “flashbulb memory” of the first time I heard R.E.M., except in my case it was in a college dorm in North Carolina, and somebody broke out the Chronic Town EP. It was a revelation. In the early eighties as a teenager I was channel flicking TV and there was a late night show whose name I’ve forgotten that used to feature whole concerts by obscure alternative bands. I stopped on the show for a few seconds, listened, flicked channels again, then thought, “Hey, wait, what was that?” and flicked back. It was a concert by some band that played highly melodic, minor key tunes, and had this really full sound even though they were a four piece in which the singer didn’t play an instrument. And they could really _play_, which stood them apart from much plastic pop of the time. A few songs in I knew I had to watch to the end to find out the band’s name. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/76 "2015-05-08T20:58:37Z")
I’m a bit late to the thread, but I’m just listening to _Automatic For the People_ and browsing CS, so I have to comment. If it wasn’t for Wilco, I’d say that R.E.M. was the last great American rock band. Not being from the U.S., I discovered them late when _Document_ came out and the singles got airplay in Germany. I really got infected when _Out Of Time_ came out and been a fan since then. Of course I know their early work by now and won’t dismiss it (it’s great), but for me their peak was from _Document_ to _New Adventures In Hifi_. When Bill Berry went, it was over, nevermind the occasional decent song or album. I was born in 1968 and the eighties should be my reminiscing era, but I hated most of the mainstream music of that time and hadn’t access to all the good stuff that was being made then, living in a small village in Germany pre-Internet. So it was the nineties when all boundaries between corporate rock and alternative were broken when my real musical socialization took place, and R.E.M. were a big part of that. So a lot of my favorite albums of all time are from then, but _Automatic_ is the best album of the nineties, hands down. I don’t understand the comments about R.E.M. becoming radio-friendly or commercial, because I find that listening to _Murmur_ is just as pleasant as listening to say _Out Of Time_, the sound isn’t that much different, and the band really never did get much out of the way of sounding lovely. Pavement, they ain’t. I even will defend their two most controversial songs, because I both like them. Ok, _Everybody Hurts_ may sound terrible to a depressed person (and I speak from experience, having been depressed quite some chunk of my grown life) with the “cheer up” message, but there is some good advice in it like “take comfort in your friends”, and the melody is just irresistible . And “Shiny Happy People” is just good fun (and it got Kate Pierson as a bonus) that even a cynic like me can enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/77 "2015-05-08T21:11:12Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > I don’t understand the comments about R.E.M. becoming radio-friendly or commercial, because I find that listening to _Murmur_ is just as pleasant as listening to say _Out Of Time_, the sound isn’t that much different, and the band really never did get much out of the way of sounding lovely. Pavement, they ain’t. Oh, _Murmur_ is pleasant, but it doesn’t sound like “radio” music to me, even today. It doesn’t have the polished sheen that the later albums have. It’s night and day to me. It’s not an album I would have been ready for in high school, but _Out of Time_ and _Green_ were “clean” enough for my ears at the time. > [@](#): > > I even will defend their two most controversial songs, because I both like them. Ok, _Everybody Hurts_ may sound terrible to a depressed person (and I speak from experience, having been depressed quite some chunk of my grown life) with the “cheer up” message, but there is some good advice in it like “take comfort in your friends”, and the melody is just irresistible . And “Shiny Happy People” is just good fun (and it got Kate Pierson as a bonus) that even a cynic like me can enjoy. “Shiny Happy People” is a wonderful song! That said, I don’t see anyone knocking it in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/78 "2015-05-08T21:20:48Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > “Shiny Happy People” is a wonderful song! That said, I don’t see anyone knocking it in this thread. No not here yet, but I have seen it knocked and made fun of quite some time. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/79 "2015-05-08T21:35:54Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Oh, _Murmur_ is pleasant, but it doesn’t sound like “radio” music to me, even today. It doesn’t have the polished sheen that the later albums have. It’s night and day to me. It’s not an album I would have been ready for in high school, but _Out of Time_ and _Green_ were “clean” enough for my ears at the time. Maybe the difference is that I wasn’t listening to radio music exclusively since 1983 because I had some friends who were into punk rock, some really crude stuff, which opened my eyes to explore any kind of music. But I have never given up the love for a good melody, and R.E.M. always delivered much in that regard. ---
**Author:** ![tadtooornamental](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@tadtooornamental](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tadtooornamental)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074/80 "2015-05-19T17:40:48Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > ‘It’s End of The World As We Know It’ should stand the test of time. I hear it all the time. This. Along with Nightswimming, Man in the Moon, Losing My Religion, Orange Crush, Great Beyond, etc. I don’t know if today’s kids (or kids down the road) would hear the song and go “Oh, yeah, that’s R.E.M.”, but they would at least know the songs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-e-m/719074.md?page=3)