# R.I.P. Ady Gil \[Sea Shepherd boat\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 17, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987 "2010-07-17T02:43:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/21 "2010-07-17T19:32:43Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Wouldn’t they have been surprised if the response was, “Sure, we’d love to. Problem is we’re also dead in the water because you clowns disabled our ship!” Followed by a press release that Pete Bethune was changing his name to Ahab because his leg was bitten off by an angry sperm whale. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/22 "2010-07-17T19:55:25Z")
It’s like deja vu [_all over again!_](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=546830) **Princhester** has an interesting perspective. Me, I like whales, and I believe my animal cred is beyond dispute. But these goobers really bother me. As I offered in the other thread, [\There are only two possibilities: One, the top levels of management of Sea Shepherds are oblivious to the large and unnecessary dangers their cavalier approach to safety imposes upon their volunteer crews. I find such a level of abject stupidity difficult to imagine in people who appear otherwise competent, but I cannot deny the possibility. There is though another alternative, to wit: Two, the top levels of management of Sea Shepherds are completely aware of the dangers, but they care less about the peril in which they place their ideologically passionate volunteers than they do about raising funds and keeping themselves and their mission firmly in the public eye. And so they actively accept and encourage potential dangers knowing full well the relationship between disaster and media attention. They court disaster in daily operations for its media value, and withholding or ignoring reasonable safety and competence training is a conscious choice made as a means toward that end. The volunteer crew are merely expendable dupes and pawns in a much bigger game with very high stakes. If in fact, as in One above, the principals are merely ideologically driven idiots, that would be bad enough. It might even justify the entertainment value of the show in a point-and-laugh kind of way. If instead the principals are ideologically driven cold and calculating people who deliberately place others in peril to further their own agenda, then they are simply craven bastards and we should stop watching their show, stop sending them money, and suggest that they should be the targets of legal action for depraved indifference (or something—IANAL).]([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12114691&postcount=313](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12114691&postcount=313)) So I’m neither surprised nor upset that their toy boat was lost. I am though glad that none of their idealistic followers were sacrificed to the cause. Having been a stary-eyed idealist once upon a time myself, I feel some empathy for them. ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/23 "2010-07-17T20:35:21Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > Well I’ll be donating money for a replacement boat. > > [http://www.seashepherd.org/](http://www.seashepherd.org/) > > The Sea Shepherd people are heroes in my eyes. Whalers and huge fishing companies that are killing the oceans, hunting whales into extinction and breaking laws and treaties, not so much. But then I’m an idealistic greenie with silly fluffy unrealistic ideas. > > But I do think it is interesting that on this issue, it seems that everyone on this board is in the same corner as Big Corporations and Sarah Palin. Enjoy the company 😛 Well, let me make my own position clear: I do NOT support the hunting and killing of whales. I do NOT support breaking laws. My issue with the Sea Shepherds is not their goal but their methods. If they really are heroes in your eyes, are you willing to defend their actions? You say “not so much” to those breaking laws and treaties; are you aware of how many laws the Sea Shepherds routinely break? Do you believe that throwing things at a ship of a sovereign nation on the high seas is legal and acceptable? Do you believe that deliberately trying to disable a ship on the high seas is legal and acceptable? I am not asking this rhetorically, I would like to hear a defense of the Sea Shepherds **methods and actions** , not just support for their goals. That’s kind of why I posted this in the first place, and I am actually surprised at how few Sea Shepherd defenders have shown up so far. ---
**Author:** ![Roadfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Roadfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roadfood)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/24 "2010-07-17T20:45:11Z")
> [@Ionizer](#): > > I fully agree with this. Even the recent commercials for the new season has that Cap’n stating that he only asked potential crew one question ~“Are you willing to put your life in danger?” or similar wording. Yeah, this is more of my problem with Mr. Watson. He’s the most damnable sort of hypocrite there is. He asks his volunteers to risk their lives, while he sits back in his cabin or on the bridge, watching (and being a completely ineffective leader, by the way). A couple of years ago, Mr. Watson had the plan to have some of the Sea Shepherds board a Japanese ship to give a letter of protest to the captain. He asked for volunteers. Now, clearly, no one expected this stunt to have any direct effect, it was 100% a PR ploy. Their lunatic hypocrisy came to the fore again as, after his people illegally boarded a ship at sea – something that most of the world calls “piracy” – he had the audacity to then whine to the press that the Japanese were illegally kidnapping his people. Now, my question for Mr. “Are you willing to risk your life for the whales” Watson is: Why didn’t **YOU** board the Japanese ship? Imagine how much more impact the PR whining would have had if the _leader_ of the Sea Shepherds was being “illegally kidnapped”? Ah, but that would have required Mr. Watson to get up off his lazy fat ass and actually DO something, other than play pretend pirate captain. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/25 "2010-07-17T22:20:29Z")
Is it any reflection on the mindset of the “activists” that the Ady Gil looked like something out of a comic book? Something a ten-year old boy would draw, with “striking terror into the whalers’ hearts by its very appearance” in mind?? If they actually manage to get enough donations to build a new one, I recommend they paint some bitchen flames, eyes, and shark teeth on it! That’d make those Japanese guys think twice! Ooh! Ooh! They could name the new one the “Gaudy Gil.” Sorry. Got carried away. The last two episodes of Whale Wars are the first time I’ve ever seen the program, and I’m not sure these clowns aren’t doing more harm than good. . ---
**Author:** ![Ionizer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/26 "2010-07-17T22:53:22Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > If they actually manage to get enough donations to build a new one, I recommend they paint some bitchen flames, eyes, and shark teeth on it! That’d make those Japanese guys think twice! > > Ooh! Ooh! They could name the new one the “Gaudy Gil.” > > . Good ones there 🙂 I was daydreaming the other day when that commercial came on, and I had a thought that if the Japanese govt could talk their enemy, Dear Leader of N Korea, to torpedo a couple Sea Sheps that it might go a long ways to ‘normalizing’ relations between the two countries. I know it is silly to even think that is possible, but it sure would be interesting to see a headline saying “NK torp found in wreck of S Shep vessel”. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/27 "2010-07-18T03:11:19Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Is this a zombie thread? > > Uh, you got your analogy backwards - fixed below No I didn’t and your “fix” is a complete misrepresentation (has zero to do with skin color). My analogy was **Rand Rover** is equated with the Ady Gil guys harassing me (me being the whaling guys). Whaling guys decide to try to kill the Ady Gil guys. Make no mistake running a ship that size is at the least reckless endangerment and that is being kind. Ady Gil guys may be assholes but in our legal system someone being an asshole to you does not give you the right to try to kill them…or even put their life in serious jeopardy. Thanks for playing though. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/28 "2010-07-18T03:14:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If by harassing you mean burn your house down then yes, you are entitled to defend your house by force if necessary. The Ady Gil was idling and not threatening the whaler when this went down. The Japanese ship turned in to them and was on a collision course. Pretty sure in US law, at least, if you try to burn down my house yesterday I cannot try and kill you the following day. Not sure any law in the world is cool with that but I cannot say for sure (would be surprised if somewhere does allow that). ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/29 "2010-07-18T03:27:14Z")
Legal system? US law? Whack-a-mole, are you aware of the general location of the whaling fleet and the Ady Gil when it was sunk? Also, Stoneburg, I will be donating money to the Japanese whaling fleet to buy torpedoes. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/30 "2010-07-18T03:45:30Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Legal system? US law? Whack-a-mole, are you aware of the general location of the whaling fleet and the Ady Gil when it was sunk? Absolutely. If you are saying international maritime law does not see it this way then feel free to point it out. I am guessing some principles in law are darn near universal. One of them being you do not get to try to kill me because I am a pain in your ass. I could be wrong though. I am no expert in international law. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/31 "2010-07-18T04:10:21Z")
The Japanese deserve a pain the the ass. The naïve pawns don’t deserve to be deliberately rammed while they sit still in the water. Their antics are mostly harmless (except to the bottom ¥) and an intentional ramming is uncalled-for. Paul ‘Douche’ Watson deserves to become entangled with a boat or ship he sinks, so that he can shout ‘From Hell’s heart I stab at thee! For hate’s sake, I spit my last breath at thee!’ – and then dive to Davy Jones’s locker. (I applaud his stated goal of stopping whaling, but he’s still a malignant douche. And the Ahab schitck would be funny.) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/32 "2010-07-18T04:43:00Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The Ady Gil was idling and not threatening the whaler when this went down. The Japanese ship turned in to them and was on a collision course. > > Pretty sure in US law, at least, if you try to burn down my house yesterday I cannot try and kill you the following day. Not sure any law in the world is cool with that but I cannot say for sure (would be surprised if somewhere does allow that). International law did not see it your way. This happened in real time. The whaling ship didn’t hunt the Ady Gil down a day later. The Ady Gil was playing chicken with the whaling ship. They have a history of sinking ships. I’ll say it again, the Japanese government should escort the whalers and seize every one of the pirate boats. The crews can go on trial and the ships can go to the bottom of the sea. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/33 "2010-07-18T06:26:10Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Whaling guys decide to try to kill the Ady Gil guys. If the Japanese were serious about killing the SS people, they’d do it easily and most likely very efficiently and effectively. The SS people play games and the whalers respond. They shouldn’t play if they don’t like the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/34 "2010-07-18T06:26:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > International law did not see it your way. > > This happened in real time. The whaling ship didn’t hunt the Ady Gil down a day later. The Ady Gil was playing chicken with the whaling ship. They have a history of sinking ships. > > I’ll say it again, the Japanese government should escort the whalers and seize every one of the pirate boats. The crews can go on trial and the ships can go to the bottom of the sea. Precisely. And I wish they’d stop with the whaling. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/35 "2010-07-18T06:32:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > International law did not see it your way. > > This happened in real time. The whaling ship didn’t hunt the Ady Gil down a day later. The Ady Gil was playing chicken with the whaling ship. They have a history of sinking ships. > > I’ll say it again, the Japanese government should escort the whalers and seize every one of the pirate boats. The crews can go on trial and the ships can go to the bottom of the sea. A day later, an hour later…does it matter? The Ady Gil was idling. Japanese ship went for it. I know of no law system that says it is a-ok to run over them in that circumstance regardless of them being assholes previously. If you can cite case law, international or otherwise, that this is a peachy thing to do I’d be interested to see it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/36 "2010-07-18T07:00:25Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > A day later, an hour later…does it matter? > > The Ady Gil was idling. Japanese ship went for it. > > I know of no law system that says it is a-ok to run over them in that circumstance regardless of them being assholes previously. > > If you can cite case law, international or otherwise, that this is a peachy thing to do I’d be interested to see it. There was a maritime inquiry that disagrees with your assessment of the situation. The Ady Gil was playing chicken and lost. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/37 "2010-07-18T07:12:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There was a maritime inquiry that disagrees with your assessment of the situation. The Ady Gil was playing chicken and lost. No…they found the evidence available inconclusive. Politics? No one can say for sure but it is clear the Japanese ship arrowed in on the Ady Gil which was idling. It came perilously close. The _only_ question is if the Ady Gil pilot freaked and, in an attempt to get away, drove himself into the Japanese ship. The Ady Gil was NOT playing chicken when this went down. If the Ady Gil was actively playing chicken and got run over then fine, their own problem, but this was not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/38 "2010-07-18T07:20:37Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > No…they found the evidence available inconclusive. > > Politics? No one can say for sure but it is clear the Japanese ship arrowed in on the Ady Gil which was idling. It came perilously close. The _only_ question is if the Ady Gil pilot freaked and, in an attempt to get away, drove himself into the Japanese ship. > > The Ady Gil was NOT playing chicken when this went down. > > If the Ady Gil was actively playing chicken and got run over then fine, their own problem, but this was not the case. Not sure what part of “disagreed with your assessment” needs explaining. You are making a claim that X happened. They are not. Call it what you want but they were deliberately running at the whaling ship. They were also the faster and more maneuverable ship by many factors. The only way they can get run over is to let it happen. ---
**Author:** ![Komlekleppen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/94ad74/32.png) [@Komlekleppen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Komlekleppen)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/39 "2010-07-18T07:22:01Z")
Ok my first post and I will ruin all the fun… > **[ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)](https://www.abc.net.au/news)** > > Trusted and independent source of local, national and world news. In-depth analysis, business, sport, weather and more. The captain of Ady Gill did the letter thing, and got arrested, sent to Japan, charged and found partly guilty. He is now back home in New Zealand. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987/40 "2010-07-18T07:39:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Not sure what part of “disagreed with your assessment” needs explaining. You are making a claim that X happened. They are not. > > Call it what you want but they were deliberately running at the whaling ship. They were also the faster and more maneuverable ship by many factors. The only way they can get run over is to let it happen. They are not what? We did this on the SDMB when it happened. The only thing that is unclear is if the Ady Gil drove into the Japanese ship. Mind you, looking at the video, the Japanese came perilously close to the Ady Gil. If they didn’t move the Japanese ship would have passed within a few feet of the Ady Gil. That is staggering with ships that size. And a government agency didn’t want to rock the boat (pun intended) with another nation? Go figure. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-ady-gil-sea-shepherd-boat/546987.md?page=3)