# R.I.P. Confederacy----and good riddance **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2015, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-confederacy-and-good-riddance/723221 "2015-06-23T05:57:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-confederacy-and-good-riddance/723221/241 "2015-07-02T22:27:43Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > In addition to standard gauge railroads, the industrialized north gave the south: running water, indoor toilets and electricity. TVA brought the South industry and jobs. The advent of shoes eliminated the endemic hookworm problem. > > Confederacy - Good Riddance! > > Crane Hayseed: But other than all that, what’s the North ever done for us? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-confederacy-and-good-riddance/723221/242 "2015-07-03T00:22:16Z")
People called Yankies, they go, the house! ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-confederacy-and-good-riddance/723221/243 "2015-07-03T03:35:45Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > In addition to standard gauge railroads, the industrialized north gave the south: running water, indoor toilets and electricity. TVA brought the South industry and jobs. The advent of shoes eliminated the endemic hookworm problem. And in return, we gave the Yankees blues, bluegrass, rock and roll, jazz, country music, a whole mess of good eating, a metric ton of good literature, and the useful word “y’all.” How boring would American culture be without us? Goods for culture! A fair exchange! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-confederacy-and-good-riddance/723221/244 "2015-07-03T05:18:50Z")
> [@Salvor](#): > > This is the kind of information that pisses me off. > > [Poll: After Charleston, a nation divided on the Confederate flag](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/06/30/usa-today-suffolk-poll-confederate-flag-gun-control/29500975/) > According to that poll (I still can’t completely believe it) the nation is split over whether the confederate flag is a racist symbol. SPLIT !!! > It’s a sign of so much rot and confusion over history it’s absolutely maddening. Yah well, look at that for what it is. Who is most likely to think the Confederate flag does not connotate racism? Poor white people. Who are the people most likely to do the heavy lifting in the promotion of racism as policy? Poor white people. At least, that is who American elites have historically manipulated to use public racism towards their own ends. I don’t think pwps are naturally racist fwiw. Presuming to settle an issue like this with an opinion poll is just another race war tactic. It doesn’t take the most delicate intellectual draftsmanship to plainly lay out the various cases around the Confederate flag. Those who can follow the arguments will notice what the Confederate flag really stands for. Do the opinions of those who can’t follow the arguments really matter? Well, they might if one is promoting a racist agenda. I agree it is a sign of rot and confusion over history. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-confederacy-and-good-riddance/723221/245 "2015-07-03T06:45:44Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > And in return, we gave the Yankees blues, bluegrass, rock and roll, jazz, country music, a whole mess of good eating, a metric ton of good literature, and the useful word “y’all.” How boring would American culture be without us? Goods for culture! A fair exchange! 😃 Well I could do without y’all… Let’s not forget the North Carolina research triangle. Or Cape Canaveral. Or Miami. Or Marti Gras in New Orleans. Or Coca cola. Modern air conditioning was mostly invented up north (Brooklyn as it happens), but not entirely: Stuart Cramer, a textile engineer from North Carolina, also deserves props. Dell Computer and Exxon run out of Texas, as does Texas Instruments. The US has the most efficient distribution system in the world and Arkansas’ Walmart has been a major innovators in logistics. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-confederacy-and-good-riddance/723221/246 "2015-07-03T12:11:09Z")
Air conditioning? Let me introduce you to [John Gorrie of Apalachicola, FL](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gorrie). ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-confederacy-and-good-riddance/723221/247 "2015-07-03T14:11:06Z")
Spoke, Good points. The modern South is an equal part of the United States, but it owes nothing to the Confederacy. Crane ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-confederacy-and-good-riddance/723221/248 "2015-07-03T14:14:16Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > And in return, we gave the Yankees blues, bluegrass, rock and roll, jazz, country music, a whole mess of good eating, a metric ton of good literature, and the useful word “y’all.” How boring would American culture be without us? Goods for culture! A fair exchange! 😃 As somewhat of a dual citizen, I’ll tell you we took the music, most Americans ignore the literature whether its North or South (but I appreciate it), but up in the North they pass on most of the good eatin’ (except BBQ, but you really can’t find good fried okra easily up here) and the use of the word y’all. And paid for it all in Seinfeld reruns. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-confederacy-and-good-riddance/723221/249 "2015-07-03T16:47:53Z")
Y’all is an eminently useful word that entered my vocabulary shortly after my first exposure and never left. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-confederacy-and-good-riddance/723221/250 "2015-07-03T21:31:05Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The North did not fight to free the slaves, although that motive was added as the war progressed. The North was not even trying to free the slaves when the South seceded. > > The South did secede to promote slavery. (To which the North responded by preventing secession.) The South feared that the admission of future free states would tip the balance in Congress so that at some future unknown date, the North just might try to end slavery. It was slavery that prompted secession. > > More than slavery? Sort of. But slavery was behind all the other reasons. The North’s industry complex was still new and growing, the things they were manufacturing were some what more expensive than shipping equipment in from England. The North imposed a tariff on these manufactured goods from England forcing the South to buy from the North for the cheapest price. From the point **tomndebb** brought up, it’s easy to see why the South was feeling a little disrespected. They were being tasked with paying _their_ hard earned profits to help develop the North’s industrial base. And yet again “… slavery was behind [this] other reasons.” John Charles Fremont was the first presidential candidate offered by the newly formed Republican party, and he was a _major_ abolitionist very vocal in his 1856 campaign. He was the anti-slavery candidate, so Lincoln’s nomination in 1860 was a clear step _back_ from that Republican position. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-confederacy-and-good-riddance/723221/251 "2015-07-03T22:34:43Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Air conditioning? Let me introduce you to [John Gorrie of Apalachicola, FL](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gorrie). Unfortunately his idea went nowhere. My WAG blames weak southern capital markets. In the 20th century they were strong and the South prospered. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-i-p-confederacy-and-good-riddance/723221.md?page=12)