# R.R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" Series **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 11, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815 "2003-07-11T20:55:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fingolfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eada6e/32.png) [@Fingolfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fingolfin)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/1 "2003-07-11T20:55:40Z")
With the exception of Tolkien, I don’t read many fantasy books. The ones I have tried have not been able to hold my interest. _sigh_ You read Tolkien first and everything else seems like crap! I think I may have found a series that will do the trick however: George R.R. Martin’s “A Song of Ice and Fire”. **Slashdot’ers** perked my interest: [A Game of Thrones - Slashdot](http://books.slashdot.org/books/03/07/03/1445206.shtml?tid=188&tid=192) The **Westeros** site has me aiming for the nearest booksote: [http://www.westeros.org/](http://www.westeros.org/) All I need now is some positive **Doper** feedback and the first book, _ **A Game of Thrones** _, will soon be on my nightstand. 😉 So, what do you think? Should I buy it? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Tambo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@Mr\_Tambo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Tambo)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/2 "2003-07-11T22:10:19Z")
Yes, definitely buy it. The series is something that’s becoming increasingly rare; fantasy with something new to say. It’s dark, absorbing and challenging. The dialogue is crisp and intelligent and, despite the size of the books, the plot is always kept moving. ---
**Author:** ![Nichol\_storm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Nichol\_storm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nichol_storm)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/3 "2003-07-11T22:22:11Z")
Definitely. It’s the only fantasy series I bother with. Martin maintains a very high quality through all three (so far) books: A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, and A Storm of Swords. He enjoys playing with stereotypes, turning them on their ear and defying your expectations of what’s going to happen. His Westeros is a richly developed world, filled with intrigue and politics and warfare and desperation. One of the best things in the ASOIAF novels is the way threads grow and develop through the books – a throway line in one book will be revealed to have deep importance two books later, and hints are dropped that allow you to piece together a fuller picture of the story than is just told on the page. Nothing happens in ASOIAF without a reason. You have to be on your toes to keep up with the characters, actions, and plot lines, and I found this a marvelous challenge. One similarity between ASOIAF and LOTR you might like is the way that magic is still rare in both worlds. Unlike many fantasy series where everybody and their Great-Aunt Irma can cast +10 Omnipotence spells, only a few people in these series can wield such power, making it much more impressive and special. Martin said that he was inspired by LOTR on this, where really only Gandalf of the main characters could do any magic, and even then he never used it a great deal. Whatever you do, don’t let anyone spoil the surprises for you! There’s lots set up in GoT that will surprise you, and the truth behind a lot of the occurences won’t be revealed until later. You may find that just when you thought you had everything figured out, that you were completely off-target – and yet Martin never pulls a Deux ex Machina, it’s all set-up carefully from day one, but he’s a master at manipulating appearances. Get started on GoT now and then pick up CoK and SoS. Maybe by the time you’re finished he’ll have published the fourth book, A Feast for Crows. ---
**Author:** ![Primaflora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Primaflora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Primaflora)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/4 "2003-07-11T22:33:40Z")
They’re wonderful books, really worth the time. Loved them. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/5 "2003-07-11T22:35:49Z")
Let me put in a fourth thumbs up for this series. It has wonderful characters, tremendous scope, unpredictable plotting, and high-quality writing. It’s the only fantasy series that’s actually inspired me to join an online fan club. The only problem, of course, is that it’s not finished yet, and the publication date for the fourth book keeps getting pushed back. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/6 "2003-07-11T22:55:47Z")
I keep checking [www.georgerrmartin.com](http://www.georgerrmartin.com) every few weeks, hoping for news. He promises to post there the instant the next book is finished. There should be five total, when it’s all done. ---
**Author:** ![Sqwerticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecc23a/32.png) [@Sqwerticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sqwerticus)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/7 "2003-07-11T23:56:58Z")
I’ll make that a fist of big thumbs up too. The next volume in the series must be even better… not even out in print yet, and already warranting 5 stars on the readers reviews sites such as Amazon or Barnes & Noble. 😛 (latest release date I found for A Feast For Crows is August 27th) ---
**Author:** ![Journeyman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/779978/32.png) [@Journeyman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Journeyman)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/8 "2003-07-12T02:51:11Z")
In the middle of “A Game of Thrones” right now, I’m loving it. He’s a talented writer, and his world and characters feel very real. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/9 "2003-07-12T03:59:24Z")
Not really a spoiler, but what the hey. Those of you reading the series for the first time: Don’t get too attached to ANYONE. ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/10 "2003-07-12T04:49:07Z")
A polydactyly of thumbs up! One of the reasons the series gripped me so strongly is that, unlike so many fantasy worlds out there, Martin’s is believably dirty and brutal, and none of the host of characters walk blithely unscathed and untouchable through it. I do wish he’d write them a bit faster, though. ---
**Author:** ![Fingolfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eada6e/32.png) [@Fingolfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fingolfin)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/11 "2003-07-12T18:56:53Z")
Wow, thanks guys! There are not many “sure things” in life. You have taxes, death, Hip Hop stars arrests, bipartisan political squabbling, the combination of a positive Slashdot’er review and a positive Doper review, and that’s about it. 🙂 The book will be on my nightstand tonight! > [@](#): > > From Nichol\_Storm: One similarity between ASOIAF and LOTR you might like is the way that magic is still rare in both worlds. Unlike many fantasy series where everybody and their Great-Aunt Irma can cast +10 Omnipotence spells, only a few people in these series can wield such power, making it much more impressive and special. Martin said that he was inspired by LOTR on this, where really only Gandalf of the main characters could do any magic, and even then he never used it a great deal. Yes! Yes! For the love of God! YES!!! Thanks again guys. I’ll chime in with my review when I am done. ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/12 "2003-07-12T21:15:20Z")
I’ve just started the first novel myself, and I find it a refreshing diversion from most of the tripe that is billed as “fantasy” these days. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/13 "2003-07-12T21:25:04Z")
Great series. Shame he takes so long to write each novel. ---
**Author:** ![Kaspar\_Hauser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@Kaspar\_Hauser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaspar_Hauser)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/14 "2003-07-12T22:34:06Z")
I’m not a big fantasy reader myself, but I blew through the first one in record time and I’m now in the middle of the second one. I think they’re great. One warning, though: they will absorb every bit of free time you have! ---
**Author:** ![stringy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@stringy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stringy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2003, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/15 "2003-07-13T05:35:04Z")
There are some threads in this forum about the series - you might want to give them a miss until you’ve read the 3 books already out. A lot of the speculation we’ve gotten into will spoil major events, and believe me, this is one series you don’t want spoiled! ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2003, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/16 "2003-07-13T08:26:45Z")
> [@](#): > > I continue to make progress on A FEAST FOR CROWS, but more slowly than I would like. In recognition of the fact that the book has not yet been completed or delivered, my publishers both in the US and UK have finally changed the April pubdate to something more realistic… but until such time as I actually deliver the book, any publication date is pure guesswork. Dammit! And I thought waiting until April was bad enough! :smack: So, **Smeghead** , I take it he’s said on his site that it’ll be a five book series? So it’s not going to turn into a Wheel of Time? ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/17 "2003-07-13T14:48:15Z")
They’re a great series. I’ve read several reviews noting similarities between the events in the books and England’s War of the Roses. At times, it reads more like bloody medieval history (is there _non_-bloody medieval history?) than your typical sword-and-sorcery. And if you’re like me, that’s a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/18 "2003-07-14T01:30:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KKBattousai \* > \*\*Dammit! And I thought waiting until April was bad enough! :smack: > > So, **Smeghead** , I take it he’s said on his site that it’ll be a five book series? So it’s not going to turn into a Wheel of Time? \*\* That’s what he’s said. Apparently, book 4 will take place several years, if not decades (I don’t remember exactly) after book 3. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/19 "2003-07-14T02:50:53Z")
Are you sure he plans only five books, **Smeghead**? I thought it was six, and a bit of [googling](http://www.cyberhaven.com/books/sciencefiction/martin.html) turned up this among many other interviews/links/articles/etc: > [@](#): > > [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com): How many novels will there be in the Song of Ice and Fire series? > > George R.R. Martin: The original plan was for three. When I hit about 1,200 pages of the first book, I was still a long way from where the first book was going to end, according to my original outline. So the first book became two books, and I said… hmm… I’ve got four. Then as I wrote the second book I noticed that the same thing was happening. So I actually called a halt for a while and I did some reorganization and I figured out how I could tell the story I wanted to tell and do justice to it, but at the same time not spend the rest of my life doing it. And six books seemed to be the most viable way to go. ---
**Author:** ![Nichol\_storm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Nichol\_storm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nichol_storm)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2003, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815/20 "2003-07-14T07:39:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Smeghead \* > \*\*That’s what he’s said. Apparently, book 4 will take place several years, if not decades (I don’t remember exactly) after book 3. \*\* That was the original plan but GRRM scrapped it due to scripting problems. AFfC will take place immediately following ASoS but will cover several years. No more gap. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/r-r-martins-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series/187815.md?page=2)