# Race differences in average IQ are largely genetic **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 27, 2012, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236 "2012-05-27T12:28:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/501 "2012-06-10T19:55:03Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I think it’s like one of those Japanese samurai flicks. He won’t notice until he takes five steps. > > PS: **NDD** , take the fucking steps already ! You should have grokked this by now, 500 posts in, telling you the same basic shit over and over. Here and in the [Pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=653465) (now up to 25 pages), I think **NDD** is adopting the classic **brazil84** strategy: [Gish-gallop](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_gallop) and [PRATT](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/PRATT) over and over and over again until everybody else gets sick of posting, then get the last post in and declare victory. > [@](#): > > The **Gish Gallop** is a skeptics’ jargon term, named after creationist Duane Gish, for the debating technique of drowning the opponent in such a torrent of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments that the opponent cannot possibly answer every falsehood in real time. The term was coined by Eugenie Scott from the National Center for Science Education. > > The debating jargon term for this is **spreading.** You can hear some mindboggling examples here. It arose as a way to throw as much rubbish into five minutes as possible. In response, some debate judges now limit number of arguments as well as time. > [@](#): > > A **point refuted a thousand times,** commonly abbreviated as **PRATT,** is a common phrase on internet forums where debates have a tendency to go in circles. Once people have refuted a point the first thousand times, it’s hard for them to muster the motivation to do it again. Once someone has labeled an argument a PRATT, that usually means they have no interest in discussing it. This could itself be a diversionary tactic. > > The website talk.origins acts as a repository of PRATTs commonly used by creationists, and presents (usually in great detail) their refutations and science behind them. The site is a good starting point when facing a PRATT. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/502 "2012-06-10T20:01:20Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Once more, nobody denies this. What we deny is that it’s due to genetic differences between black and white people, for reasons offered above. Why would you offer evidence of points everyone agrees on, instead of answering the clear questions people have asked of you? > > For example, when someone asks you the criteria for assigning people to different races, your answer is a complete non-answer: to paraphrase, you suggest you’d use phenotype and genotype to assign. Well, those two categories comprise pretty much every feature of an organism, so you could not possibly be any vaguer than that except by referring to supernatural features of organisms. What **specific** phenotypic features would help assign someone to a specific race? What **specific** genes would help assign someone to a specific race? As I have pointed out on several occasions, races can be distinguished by appearance, skeletal evidence, and DNA evidence. The races evolved in different locations in response to different population pressures. I am tired of repeating myself to those whose opinions are based on what they want to believe, rather than what the evidence clearly shows. Where is there evidence that blacks and whites are genetically equal in average intellectual endowment? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/503 "2012-06-10T20:19:41Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Where is there evidence that blacks and whites are genetically equal in average intellectual endowment? 😕 As we’ve shown repeatedly, there is no evidence that they are _not_ genetically equal in “intellectual endowment”. You have shown actually zero genetic evidence. Crime and education statistics show _nothing_ about genetics. The only evidence that tells you anything about genetics is _genetic evidence_. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/504 "2012-06-10T20:24:43Z")
NDD- you have decided that the best explanation for why there exists an “achievement” gap in education and crime statistics is a genetic explanation. There’s no genetic evidence for this. It doesn’t matter to you that there are other explanations, including the one favored by the medical and scientific community. It doesn’t even matter (to you) that the “achievement” gap has changed, and by many measures, is shrinking. It’s pretty clear that your mind was made up regardless of what the data says- you’ve provided no genetic data whatsoever, and most of the rest of your data is awfully weak. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/505 "2012-06-10T20:33:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > As we’ve shown repeatedly, there is no evidence that they are _not_ genetically equal in “intellectual endowment”. You have shown actually zero genetic evidence. Crime and education statistics show _nothing_ about genetics. The only evidence that tells you anything about genetics is _genetic evidence_. The evidence that races differ in average intelligence and that this _is_ genetic consists of persistent patterns. Members of some racial groups tend to perform better on all the tests of mental aptitude and academic achievement than members of other racial groups. The burden of proof, therefore, is on those who maintain that the races are genetically equal. * * * Description of Burden of Proof Burden of Proof is a fallacy in which the burden of proof is placed on the wrong side. Another version occurs when a lack of evidence for side A is taken to be evidence for side B in cases in which the burden of proof actually rests on side B. A common name for this is an Appeal to Ignorance. This sort of reasoning typically has the following form: Claim X is presented by side A and the burden of proof actually rests on side B. Side B claims that X is false because there is no proof for X… Examples of Burden of Proof Bill: “I think that some people have psychic powers.” Jill: “What is your proof?” Bill: “No one has been able to prove that people do not have psychic powers.” “You cannot prove that God does not exist, so He does.” [http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/506 "2012-06-10T20:52:27Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > The evidence that races differ in average intelligence and that this _is_ genetic consists of persistent patterns. Members of some racial groups tend to perform better on all the tests of mental aptitude and academic achievement than members of other racial groups. The burden of proof, therefore, is on those who maintain that the races are genetically equal. It’s not about burden of proof. I’m not trying to prove anything. You’ve shown no genetic evidence- none. All you’ve shown is that an achievement gap exists. That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/507 "2012-06-10T22:14:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not about burden of proof. I’m not trying to prove anything. You’ve shown no genetic evidence- none. All you’ve shown is that an achievement gap exists. That’s it. Because the achievement gap persists, and exists everywhere in the world it is sufficient evidence. Long before genes were discovered it was understood that children resembled their parents and siblings. The understanding of genetic resemblance between related organisms is the reason it was possible for humans to breed domestic plants and animals. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/508 "2012-06-10T22:20:40Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Because the achievement gap persists, and exists everywhere in the world it is sufficient evidence. Long before genes were discovered it was understood that children resembled their parents and siblings. > > The understanding of genetic resemblance between related organisms is the reason it was possible for humans to breed domestic plants and animals. There have been many achievement gaps that have disappeared in the past. Just because this one hasn’t disappeared yet (though by many measures it is closing) in only 40 or so years of at least somewhat equal treatment (in the USA) is not by any means evidence that the gap is due to genetics. All you’ve done is make a hypothesis, and restate it in various ways. Real science is hard. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/509 "2012-06-10T22:41:31Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > As I have pointed out on several occasions, races can be distinguished by appearance, skeletal evidence, and DNA evidence. What appearance characteristics? What skeletal evidence? What DNA evidence? All of this stuff is measurable - please provide the details of your classification system. Note to all other posters: There is no way NDD will actually provide details here. Either he/she will ignore this post, or answer in some ambiguous manner, never actually revealing how he/she has constructed these races. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/510 "2012-06-10T23:54:40Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > As I have pointed out on several occasions, races can be distinguished by appearance, skeletal evidence, and DNA evidence. So, just to ask something I asked in the Pit thread, you are officially asserting that these supposed differences between the races are bright, measurable, and objectively observable? If so, please go into more detail and show that these differences hold consistently true enough to be of value. If not, then why do they make a difference in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/511 "2012-06-11T02:28:08Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > The evidence that races differ in average intelligence and that this _is_ genetic consists of persistent patterns. Members of some racial groups tend to perform better on all the tests of mental aptitude and academic achievement than members of other racial groups. The burden of proof, therefore, is on those who maintain that the races are genetically equal. You’ve failed to even provide evidence that “blacks” are a genetically identifiable group. You do not even seem to be aware that sub-Saharan Africans are, in fact, broken up into physically distinct groups that cannot logically be classified as the same race. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/512 "2012-06-11T03:19:34Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > … You do not even seem to be aware that sub-Saharan Africans are, in fact, broken up into physically distinct groups that cannot logically be classified as the same race. Well I can. How about the human race ? I find these race/genetics "great debates"often make claims on both sides that are unsupported and sometimes get ridiculous. I’d like to know who comprise these distinct physical groups in sub Sahara Africa. Are you referring to the Europeans and Asians as well as the indigenous Africans who all presently live in the region? Well aren’t you supporting **NDD** then, or are you arguing for expanding the number of races. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/513 "2012-06-11T03:41:11Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Well I can. > > How about the human race ? > > I find these race/genetics "great debates"often make claims on both sides that are unsupported and sometimes get ridiculous. I’d like to know who comprise these distinct physical groups in sub Sahara Africa. Are you referring to the Europeans and Asians as well as the indigenous Africans who all presently live in the region? > Well aren’t you supporting **NDD** then, or are you arguing for expanding the number of races. Khoisans don’t look like Somalis. Somalis don’t look like Nigerians. I mean, they are as different as Barack Obama and John McCain. The point is the NDD’s divisions of “Race” are totally arbitrary. He is asserting that genetic divisions exist along lines where there is no logical basis for saying they exist. I can just as easily break the world up into four, five, six, seven, or eight races by using physical generalities. I could break it up into two races. His position is flatly, amazingly preposterous because he is asserting genetic traits to the human species on the assumption there are three races. \*\*But there isn’t any logical reason to say there are three races. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/514 "2012-06-11T04:46:53Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Are you referring to the Europeans and Asians as well as the indigenous Africans who all presently live in the region? No. The [Khoi-san](http://www.justfoodnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/San-people-marczawel.com_1.jpg) of southern Africa, the [Hadza](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YOkBOCJZAvY/S7QlKOFrMyI/AAAAAAAAAOw/ip0SbEjhDtE/s1600/Hadza+portrait.jpg) and [Sandawe](http://www.tanzaniatouristboard.com/gallery/uploads/posts/2008-02/thumbs/1203661337_57.jpg) of East Africa, and some Pygmy groups such as the [Mbuti](http://www.mikaelstrandberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/gammelgubbepygmee.jpg) are the most ancient splits from the rest of modern humans including other Africans. All these people would be classified as “black” under NDD’s criteria. However, other groups of sub-Saharan Africa such as the [Bantu](http://www.cheap-kenya-vacation-tips.com/images/bantu-people-of-kenya4.jpg) are much more closely related to Europeans/Caucasians and to Asians than they are to these other sub-Saharan African groups. Likewise, other superficially “black” groups like [Papuans](http://images.theage.com.au/2009/06/01/550697/N_PAPUANS-420x0.jpg), [Australian Aborigines](http://econjsun.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/ab.jpg), [Andamanese,](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XR_LNcnwbH0/TIXaHdzDh4I/AAAAAAAAAKw/XbUJ6KsRcgg/s1600/The%2BGreat%2BAndmaneses.jpg)[Orang Asli](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fXpLFYBUbs4/TDwVNYuPPVI/AAAAAAAACz0/l31C49kRNGQ/s400/orang-asli.jpg)of Malaysia, and Philippine [Negritos](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_GwteOgksiFI/TQEGL05WQOI/AAAAAAAAA3k/lmKUO7QY4aY/s1600/11a-Negritos.jpg) are all more closely related to Europeans and to Asians than they are to Bantu or other sub-Saharan Africans. > [@](#): > > Well aren’t you supporting **NDD** then, or are you arguing for expanding the number of races. To have anything like cohesive genetic groups, you would need dozens if not hundreds of “races,” and of course this would not account for all the intermediate groups and mixed individuals. So it would be pointless, and not tell us anything useful about human variation. Saying that humans can be broken down into three races is like saying they come in three sizes. It’s just arrant nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/515 "2012-06-11T05:47:04Z")
Here’s a recent [phylogenetic tree o](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v464/n7290/fig_tab/nature08976_F3.html)f human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). You can see that there are a number of different branches within sub-Saharan Africans, and some Africans are closer to Europeans and Asians than they are to other Africans. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/516 "2012-06-11T08:51:20Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You provided references from Rushton, Jensen, and Gottfredson, and a couple of others. It was exactly this point that persuaded me that Jensen was a crank over twenty years ago. I used to pay attention to Jensen. He does a lot of neat manipulation of numbers. However, when he comes out and makes a claim for his numbers that can only mean that half of an entire population is not capable of buying their own groceries or making rent and car payments, then he has demonstrated that his numbers are bullshit. > Somehow, in Jensen’s world, (and that of Rushton and Gottfredson), a person with an IQ below 85–who would be living in group home or an institution if that person were white–is simply a fine example of a “typical” low performing black person who gets along fine in the world with their lack of intelligence, doing things that a white person of comparable IQ would be incapable of doing. It makes no sense in the real world–and indicates his scoring of intelligence is pretty much imaginary–and I see no reason to accept such ridiculous claims. Sorry but you are out of step with the research. The roughly 1 standard deviation gap in the US is one thing that psychologists appear to [largely agree on](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence:_Knowns_and_Unknowns). The debate is about [the cause of the gap](http://www.commentarymagazine.com/article/the-iq-controversy-by-mark-snyderman-and-stanley-rothman/) (also see chapter 4 discussion of [The IQ Controversy](http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=DAYO1Nggh3EC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=15%20iq&f=false)). ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/517 "2012-06-11T09:14:04Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > To have anything like cohesive genetic groups, you would need dozens if not hundreds of “races,” and of course this would not account for all the intermediate groups and mixed individuals. So it would be pointless, and not tell us anything useful about human variation… Not necessarily. Just going on the some of the groups used in the US census provide [cohesive genetic groups](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1196372/). As McEvoy et al [note](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2917718/): > [@](#): > > We first explored the overall relationship of the AuR sample to the HGDP populations. Importantly, the HGDP panel included two samples from Oceania: Papuans (PAP; from New Guinea) and island Melanesians (MEL; from Bougainville), populations thought to be descendents of the region’s first inhabitants. The matrix of pairwise interpopulation genetic distances (FST values) was used to construct a neighbor-joining (NJ) phylogenetic tree that summarizes the relationship of the 52 populations to each other (Figure 1A). The tree divides the populations into five broad groups: African, East Asian, West Eurasian (European, Middle Eastern, and Central and South Asian populations), American, and Oceanic. Or as Lahn & Ebenstein refer to the [major geographic groups](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v461/n7265/box/461726a_BX1.html): > [@](#): > > Anatomically modern humans first appeared in eastern Africa about 200,000 years ago. Some members migrated out of Africa by 50,000 years ago to populate Asia, Australia, Europe and eventually the Americas9. During this period, geographic barriers separated humanity into several major groups, largely along continental lines, which greatly reduced gene flow among them. Geographic and cultural barriers also existed within major groups, although to lesser degrees… > > Given these geographically differentiated polymorphisms, it is possible to group humans on the basis of their genetic make-up. Such grouping largely confirms historical separation of global populations by geography5. Indeed, a person’s major geographic group identity can be assigned with near certaintly on the basis of his or her DNA alone (now an accepted practice in forensics). There is growing evidence that some of the geographically differentiated polymorphisms are functional, meaning that they can lead to different biological outcomes (just how many is the subject of ongoing research). These polymorphisms can affect traits such as pigmentation, dietary adaptation and pathogen resistance (where evidence is rather convincing)10, 11, 12, and metabolism, physical development and brain biology (where evidence is more preliminary)6, 8, 13, 14. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/518 "2012-06-11T09:51:04Z")
How does that square with US Blacks who have \>50% European admixture? Oh, yeah, I forgot - 1 drop rule, right? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/519 "2012-06-11T14:07:51Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Well aren’t you supporting **NDD** then, or are you arguing for expanding the number of races. It could be possible to use the word race to identify the multitude of human populations. There are other languages and cultures where that continues, today. The problem with trying to use the word “race” in place of the word “population” in English, is that it has been corrupted by the racialists. Linnaeus, in the late eighteenth century, proposed four races. Blumenbach, at the turn of the nineteenth century, proposed five races. Somewhere in the late nineteenth or early twentieth centuries, various writers “lost” some of the races and we wound up with only three. Cranks such as Rushton have taken the “three race” mythology and run with it, claiming that the “three” races are divided into big genital/poor brain blacks, small genital/great brain Asians, and whites with middle-sized genitals and moderate brains. Folks like **NDD** have embraced that nonsense and keep pretending that there are only the three races, (even when they have to divide one of them into “smart” “Orientals” and “not-so-smart” “rest-of-the-Mongoloids.” Unfortunately, Rushton and his ilk have so corruptyed the term that if we actually went out and labeled 60 or more populations as “races,” we would find folks like Rushton, (and, probably NDD), finding an example of one trait of one smaller population/“race” and extrapolating it to mean that multiple populations in the larger artificial “race” all had the same traits. (Heck, we see it now, with NDD claiming that the Mongoloids arethe smartest people, then backpedlaing and tring to limit his “smart” people to just the “Orientals,” (another artifical group that he assembled by the single characteristic of epicanthic folds). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236/520 "2012-06-11T14:13:25Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Sorry but you are out of step with the research. The roughly 1 standard deviation gap in the US is one thing that psychologists appear to [largely agree on](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence:_Knowns_and_Unknowns). The debate is about [the cause of the gap](http://www.commentarymagazine.com/article/the-iq-controversy-by-mark-snyderman-and-stanley-rothman/) (also see chapter 4 discussion of [The IQ Controversy](http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=DAYO1Nggh3EC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=15%20iq&f=false)). Gee, the tests showed a basic difference on the those tests that rely on the imaginary _g_. (So we are not even talking about a universal consensus, to begin with, but only among those psychometricists who happen to believe in _g_.) Not persuasive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-differences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic/623236.md?page=27)