# Race is non-existent

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-is-non-existent/643100>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [December 5, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-is-non-existent/643100 "2012-12-05T18:28:14Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 781

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**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\
**Post date:** [February 10, 2013, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/race-is-non-existent/643100/781 "2013-02-10T05:15:27Z")

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> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> This is a ridiculous assumption; why would the change be linear? And considering the Flynn effect- that _every_ group’s IQ test scores have increased over time, this isn’t surprising. In fact, black people in 1995 had the same test scores, on average, as white people in 1945- so whatever intelligence category (not “mentally challenged”, by the way) that this particular score would fall in would apply to both white and black people, in 1945 and 1995, respectively. Which really makes a persuasive case that black people in 1995 have the same “environment” with respect to intellectual development as white people did in 1945.
> 
> This is laughably false- both for what Flynn said and what you call mentally challenged and retarded (seriously- are you just taking wild guesses now?). Just wildly ignorant and totally incorrect about how IQ test scores have usually been evaluated. And I’ve made no particular claims- I just brought up a chunk of data that shows the gap has shrunk; you’ve blown it out of proportion because you think (with your very weak grasp of IQ and how it’s evaluated) you can score points on it.
> 
> You are very, very wrong about what I think (yet again- please, just stop). You’ve stated that black people are, on average, inherently genetically less intelligent then non-black people. I see no reason to believe that black people are on average, genetically (or by any other measure except, perhaps, test-scores- and I am highly skeptical that any test score provides more than a very vague notion of actual overall intelligence) less intelligent. And by the test-score measure, black people are likely about as intelligent as white people were 50 years ago.

I think you are confused about what Flynn is saying. His whole premise rests on extrapolation that is fairly linear. He doesn’t know when the gap closure began, and in fact one of the problems with the whole Flynn hypothesis is that one has to create an arbitrary start and stop point lest we all be retarded at point X back in time, and all be geniuses in the future.

I get what he is trying to say about rising IQs, but I think he has spun and confused and conflated and extrapolated data to come up with nonsense. The rough parameters for what an absolute number for IQ correlates with in terms of practical cognitive function haven’t really changed. Generally 80-85 means you are a fairly dull person, mentally. To accept the Flynn hypothesis, you have to accept that, prior to 1972, black americans were below this level. Forget the numbers, and realize that the functional category would be considered to be borderline retarded–i.e. significantly mentally challenged–at 79. There simply isn’t evidence that large segments of the population–black and white–were basically stupid back then, and as I’ve pointed out, other scores such as academic exams which are widely administered and standardized do not support this rising IQ notion.

But…more importantly, I want to push the point that you as well as I believe that blacks are inferior for intelligence. I think it’s genes. You think it’s environment. You think everyone is getting smarter than they used to be, and you think blacks are 50 years of progress stupider than whites. I showed you ACT scores from the last 5 years. They are totally flat for blacks. I showed you ACT scores from the last 15 years. They are still totally flat. Where is this rising IQ being used, exactly?

You. like me, hold to a position that there is a substantial and real difference between these two SIRE groups. For some odd reason you find it more comfortable to blame environment that genes. And for some odd reason you find that explanation more tenable even though high SES blacks continue to underscore low SES whites on academic exams.

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