# Racial dynamics in Nu Doctor Who **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 19, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284 "2015-01-19T14:51:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/1 "2015-01-19T14:51:29Z")
This is going to be a touchy one, but everybody stay calm. I have no more agenda than an arched eyebrow. First companion was Rose. Pretty white girl dating Mickey, a black guy that I found a little annoying, but he did redeem himself later. Rose and Mickey never married, though. Next up was Donna. When we meet her, she’s a white girl obsessed with marrying a black guy. He tries to feed her to a giant spider, so of course that doesn’t work. Then the whole thing switches and we have Martha. A pretty black girl obsessed with a white guy. That doesn’t work for the two either. Next, there’s Amy and Rory. The only romantic relationship in the show that ends with the two truly trying to be together. Also the only one with two members of the same race. After that there is Clara Oswald and Danny Pink. Pretty white girl. Black guy. Ends badly. Boring characters, don’t care, but… I don’t know what the writer’s are trying to convey, but I do see a pattern. I suspect that they are trying to push kind of a “tolerance” message, but failing. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/2 "2015-01-19T15:06:00Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > Next up was Donna. When we meet her, she’s a white girl obsessed with marrying a black guy. And married a different black guy after she stopped traveling with the Doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/3 "2015-01-19T15:22:41Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > And married a different black guy after she stopped traveling with the Doctor. Wasn’t he South Asian? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/4 "2015-01-19T15:34:25Z")
Don’t forget that Mickey and Martha end up together for no apparent reason. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/5 "2015-01-19T15:44:37Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > Next up was Donna. When we meet her, she’s a white girl obsessed with marrying a black guy. It’s been a while since I watched that special, but wasn’t it her wedding day? I don’t think “I need to get to my wedding” counts as being _obsessed_. Am willing to be persuaded otherwise if I’m misremembering. There’s also the possibility that the casting director just chose the best actors for the job and didn’t consider the race to be an important part of the role. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/6 "2015-01-19T15:49:35Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Don’t forget that Mickey and Martha end up together for no apparent reason. In a timeline that ceased to exist soon afterwards. (Also, there’s totally a reason - so they’d be Smith & Jones.) ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/7 "2015-01-19T15:55:39Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > In a timeline that ceased to exist soon afterwards. 10 regenerating didn’t end a timeline… ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/8 "2015-01-19T15:55:50Z")
I suspect that in the UK they look at race differently than they do in the US. Black and White relationships don’t have the same baggage they do here. I know that the UK had a mixed race relationship – without race being an issue – as far back as 1992 with **Prime Suspect 2** (and it may have been done before that); they US had to wait five years for **Ally McBeal** – and it’s still fairly rare in the US. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/9 "2015-01-19T16:14:07Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I suspect that in the UK they look at race differently than they do in the US. Black and White relationships don’t have the same baggage they do here. That gets to my point of bringing this up. It’s almost like the casting people are _intentionally_ doing this. One interracial relationship, I wouldn’t even notice. Nor care. But this is four out of five. That’s gotta be some kind of statement. Still don’t care, but I do wonder if the writers are trying to preach something. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/10 "2015-01-19T16:23:27Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > 10 regenerating didn’t end a timeline… No, the Paradox Machine getting destroyed did. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/11 "2015-01-19T16:45:38Z")
Since as near as I can tell, Mickey and Martha being married post-date the existence and subsequent destruction of the paradox machine, I’m not sure how that’s relevant. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/12 "2015-01-19T17:39:48Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Since as near as I can tell, Mickey and Martha being married post-date the existence and subsequent destruction of the paradox machine, I’m not sure how that’s relevant. Yeah, that all happened post End of Time. The Paradox Machine being destroyed only wiped out everything that happened once the Toclafanes showed up. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/13 "2015-01-19T18:25:49Z")
I noticed this years ago. I don’t have anything against interracial relationships, but it sure does seem like they’re trying a bit too hard. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/14 "2015-01-19T18:39:30Z")
I’ve noticed this myself in other BBC dramas. On the other hand, while the overall ethnic diversity of London is comparable to many big American cities, I have a vague notion that London has a greater integration of ethnic groups – less geographic isolation, more interracial relationships of all sorts. This is all just off the top of my head so take it with a big grain of Confirmation Bias Salt. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/15 "2015-01-19T18:43:53Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > I noticed this years ago. I don’t have anything against interracial relationships, but it sure does seem like they’re trying a bit too hard. It’s kind of always trying too hard. They mention the gay couple being married about 10 billion times instead of assuming we get the gist. I’m talking about that lizard lady and her wife. It’s getting tiring being told “we’re married” every 5 minutes they are on screen. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/16 "2015-01-19T18:59:09Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > It’s kind of always trying too hard. They mention the gay couple being married about 10 billion times instead of assuming we get the gist. I’m talking about that lizard lady and her wife. It’s getting tiring being told “we’re married” every 5 minutes they are on screen. And let’s not forget about Captain Jack Harkness. The guy started out as charming swashbuckling pansexual hero, but by the end of his run the show couldn’t have him on screen for five minutes without reminding the viewer that the guy has sex with other dudes. It’s a shame, really. He’s a great character, and there’s just no need to constantly remind everybody about his sexuality. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/17 "2015-01-19T19:06:33Z")
I don’t watch a lot of Dr. Who. Occasionally I have it on in the background when I’m doing other things, but my impression definitely matches the OP’s. Interracial relationships may be less of a hot button in the UK, but it’s still not “traditional.” Torchwood takes it even further, featuring bisexual and homosexual characters. So I think the modern Who-verse has made a conscious decision to feature relationship that push the conventional boundaries in one way or another. (ETA: Apparently, ninja’d on the Torchwood observation.) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/18 "2015-01-19T19:10:49Z")
I just figured it was Russell T Davies trying to sneak as much sexually subversive stuff into the Whoniverse as he could get away with (let’s not forget the woman married to a cat-man and their litter of kittens), and then Steven Moffat carrying on with much of the same later (Vastra and Jenny). ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/19 "2015-01-19T19:21:31Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > I don’t watch a lot of Dr. Who. Occasionally I have it on in the background when I’m doing other things, but my impression definitely matches the OP’s. Interracial relationships may be less of a hot button in the UK, but it’s still not “traditional.” Torchwood takes it even further, featuring bisexual and homosexual characters. > > So I think the modern Who-verse has made a conscious decision to feature relationship that push the conventional boundaries in one way or another. > > (ETA: Apparently, ninja’d on the Torchwood observation.) Yeah, you are right. Owen is into casual pickups. Jack is bisexual/omni. Gwen is hetrosexual/bicurious/straying Ianto is Jack-o-sexual 🙂 Toshi is technically a necrophilliac after Owen becomes undead ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/20 "2015-01-19T19:31:39Z")
Another thought occurs to me, though, and it’s one that makes me want to forgive the fact that _Doctor Who_ tries a little too hard to promote, well, let’s call it “tolerance”. The thought is this: It _is_ kind of a kid’s show. As an adult, as I think most of us are in this thread, you only have to tell me things once. Maybe twice if I’m not paying attention. But kids are a little different. You may have to metaphorically hit them over the head with concepts. I’m 41 year’s old. I know stuff. Stuff like the fact that there is nothing wrong with interracial or homosexual dating/marriage. If you hit me over the head with that I’m just going to groan and ask you to get on with the plot. But an 11 year old, well, these might be new concepts for him or her. And repetition might help a bit. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284.md?page=2)