# Racial dynamics in Nu Doctor Who **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 19, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284 "2015-01-19T14:51:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/41 "2015-01-20T00:50:48Z")
And then she converted, but he still loved her. Ianto is very open-minded. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/42 "2015-01-20T00:57:43Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > And let’s not forget about Captain Jack Harkness. The guy started out as charming swashbuckling pansexual hero, but by the end of his run the show couldn’t have him on screen for five minutes without reminding the viewer that the guy has sex with other dudes. It’s a shame, really. He’s a great character, and there’s just no need to constantly remind everybody about his sexuality. It was even worse on Torchwood. He kind of became a super slut if I remember correctly. He was cooler when introduced. > [@RandMcnally](#): > > One thing that I didn’t understand was when the Doctor kept calling Danny Pink the PE teach, despite the latter saying over and over that he is a math teacher. > > Maybe it’s a class think in the UK, that Pink would “only” be the PE teacher because soldiers are so stupid. When I watched it, as an American, I was thinking, “that’s horribly racist.” Holy crap, I never thought it was racist. It’s just the Doctor thinking he seemed more like a PE teacher than maths. Yikes. The Doctor is never racist, even cross-species. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/43 "2015-01-20T01:27:40Z")
[QUOTE=Mahaloth] Holy crap, I never thought it was racist. [/QUOTE] I never thought the “P.E. teacher” thing was racist, either. To me, it didn’t read like The Doctor was insulting Danny because he was black, it read like the Doctor was insulting him because he was Clara’s boyfriend. The Doc’s just being kind of a dick. The putdown would work with any ethnicity, Or even species. He is a Time Lord, after all. And also kind of a dick. I can imagine: _Steven Hawking_: I’m a world renowned astro-physicist. _The Doctor_: Astro-physics? You must be proud. Here’s a dodge-ball. I hear humans bounce it off each other’s heads to make them think better. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/44 "2015-01-20T01:35:34Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I know that the UK had a mixed race relationship – without race being an issue – as far back as 1992 with **Prime Suspect 2** (and it may have been done before that); There was a UK sitcom in the late 70s called [Mixed Blessings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_Blessings_%28British_TV_series%29). At the time it was meant to be progressive, but this was coming out of an era marred by [Love Thy Neighbour](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Thy_Neighbour), so anything looked good compared with that. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/45 "2015-01-20T01:41:14Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > It’s kind of always trying too hard. They mention the gay couple being married about 10 billion times instead of assuming we get the gist. I’m talking about that lizard lady and her wife. It’s getting tiring being told “we’re married” every 5 minutes they are on screen. I think it’s the lizard/human marriage that might be seen as a bit odd by viewers, more than the lesbian one. Or that could just be me. I mean, she’s a lizard woman! ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/46 "2015-01-20T02:50:04Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I suspect that in the UK they look at race differently than they do in the US. Black and White relationships don’t have the same baggage they do here. > > I know that the UK had a mixed race relationship – without race being an issue – as far back as 1992 with **Prime Suspect 2** (and it may have been done before that); they US had to wait five years for **Ally McBeal** – and it’s still fairly rare in the US. US had a mixed race relationship in the 70’s on the Jeffersons. I mean, George called them Oreos and stuff, but no one else in the show cared, and George seemed to hate everyone but Weezie anyway. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/47 "2015-01-20T03:24:42Z")
I’ve noticed the “trying too hard” thing too. No, you can’t be lesbians. You have to be cross species lesbians! They do that to gays a lot on TV, Brit & US. No, you can’t just be gay. You have to be multi-racial with multi-racial adopted kids. They must have serious allergies to everything and be adorably autistic. The thing with PE, that was because the Doctor hates soldiers. I did remember thinking, “they wouldn’t do that on a US show. It’d be racist.” A lot of directors seem to really struggle with gay characters not seeming forced and contrived. It’s even worse for bisexuals. How do you tell the audience they’re bi without them having sex with both genders, and not have them look like sluts? ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/48 "2015-01-20T04:26:36Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > All I remember is the wedding (at which Ten was ‘saying goodbye,’ though not to Donna herself). Was there further information to the effect that they ended up happy? Well, the Doctor did give Donna a winning lottery ticket as a wedding present. So if they weren’t happy, at least they were rich. 🙂 But from what Wilf said to the Doctor earlier, Shaun and Donna got along very well. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/49 "2015-01-20T04:32:29Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > I never thought the “P.E. teacher” thing was racist, either. To me, it didn’t read like The Doctor was insulting Danny because he was black, it read like the Doctor was insulting him because he was Clara’s boyfriend. The Doc’s just being kind of a dick. And at that point, did the Doctor know he was a soldier? I’m sure he could not imagine a former soldier teaching maths. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/50 "2015-01-20T11:44:22Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > I never thought the “P.E. teacher” thing was racist, either. To me, it didn’t read like The Doctor was insulting Danny because he was black, it read like the Doctor was insulting him because he was Clara’s boyfriend. He did not know he was her boyfriend yet. Did know he was a former soldier. The other teacher (he he did think was her boyfriend because he looked like eleven) had mentioned Danny’s military experience, and his electrical experience there. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/51 "2015-01-20T11:54:36Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > … Statistics seem to back me up. Stats on relationships from [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States) seem to suggest that about 8% of black americans are married to non-black people. Meanwhile according to [this article](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10943807/Love-across-the-divide-interracial-relationships-growing-in-Britain.html) about 20% to 25% of British African people are in a relationship outside their ethnicity. … most of their non-white characters ought to be in relationships with white characters. If you have 90% white, 10% non-white, then 90% of the non-white people will probably be married outside their race First the second part is contradicted by the first. Second, not quite the fair comparison for the show. If you want to use that source you can also quote > [@](#): > > … white people remain by far the most segregated … Only one in 25 white people have settled down with someone from outside their own racial background. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/52 "2015-01-20T12:25:35Z")
Not saying that a fantasy show needs to reflect reality mind you. But that yes they seem to be trying very very hard, not just reflecting the norms of the U.K. as they exist. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/53 "2015-01-20T13:00:54Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Holy crap, I never thought it was racist. It’s just the Doctor thinking he seemed more like a PE teacher than maths. Yikes. Definitely not racist. This Doctor can barely tell humans apart except for a couple that he cares about. He certainly doesn’t care about human skin tone. The P.E. thing was a shortcut to show his disdain for someone he instantly clashed with. Their personalities don’t mix and it was made worse by the Clara relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/54 "2015-01-20T13:14:46Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Holy crap, I never thought it was racist. It’s just the Doctor thinking he seemed more like a PE teacher than maths. Yikes. > > The Doctor is never racist, even cross-species. I will finish reading the thread when I get the chance, but I can’t resist leaving this here first: > [@](#): > > First Doctor (from The Dalek’s Master Plan): “This is a madhouse. It’s all full of Arabs. Come along.” There’s also some stuff about the “Savage Indian” in An Unearthly Child. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/55 "2015-01-20T13:27:34Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Second, not quite the fair comparison for the show. If you want to use that source you can also quote > > > [@](#): > > > > … white people remain by far the most segregated … Only one in 25 white people have settled down with someone from outside their own racial background. Not surprising, since Britain’s nearly 90% white. Even in a totally race-blind society with an even distribution of ethnicities, that number wouldn’t rise to more than one in 8. But I don’t know if that stat is relevant, because I’m theorising that the producers are deliberately including black characters for the sake of diversity, and _then_ deciding what to do with them. And then the question becomes - is it reasonable to have them in a relationship with one of the other main characters? Is that a situation black British people are often in? Well, yes it is. I doubt that they’re putting their black characters in relationships with white characters specifically because they think that it’s edgy. I do think they’re trying to increase their general diversity though (and Old-Who, like a lot of British TV at the time, was pretty mediocre in that respect) ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/56 "2015-01-20T13:33:40Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Definitely not racist. This Doctor can barely tell humans apart except for a couple that he cares about. Yeah, those humans. They all look alike, you know. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/57 "2015-01-20T13:48:14Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > Next, there’s Amy and Rory. The only romantic relationship in the show that ends with the two truly trying to be together. Also the only one with two members of the same race. Yeah, but Amy and Rory were Scottish. That’s barely white. Also, does every planet in every time period they visit have to have the same racial demographics of Earth? Why not a planet of all black people or all Asian looking people (wouldn’t be Asia obviously)? Or why not a future Earth where everyone is Chinese or something. At least Star Trek made them green or blue or put an ass on their head or something to make them look like they were not from Cardiff. I’m more interested in the racial dynamics of shows like Battlestar Galactica or V where the aliens/robots are pretending to be human. “So…do we …um…what to make a black one?” “Sure. Why wouldn’t we?” “Oh…no reason…it just might be considered racist if we did.” “I would think it would be racist if we didn’t.” “Yeaaa…I suppose. So do you want ‘Black Guy’ or ‘Sexy Asian Girl’?” "You don’t have any “White Guy” models left? “No. They went pretty quick”. “Uhhh…then I’ll take Sexy Asian Girl.” ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/58 "2015-01-20T14:39:51Z")
Actually, you know what’s really funny about the racial dynamics of Nu Who? No Asians. If they’re really trying to be inclusive, there should be twice as many Asian characters as black ones, at least. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/59 "2015-01-20T15:23:28Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Actually, you know what’s really funny about the racial dynamics of Nu Who? No Asians. If they’re really trying to be inclusive, there should be twice as many Asian characters as black ones, at least. Torchwood. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284/60 "2015-01-20T15:34:38Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Actually, you know what’s really funny about the racial dynamics of Nu Who? No Asians. If they’re really trying to be inclusive, there should be twice as many Asian characters as black ones, at least. Oddly enough, the demographics of the Whoverse are very similar to the demographics of London talent agency clients. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-dynamics-in-nu-doctor-who/710284.md?page=4)