# Racial Surprises on old TV shows **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [December 28, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222 "2022-12-28T15:55:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/41 "2022-12-29T16:53:04Z")
I think the portrayal of Annie in _It’s A Wonderful Life_ is far more positive than negative, for the reasons you state, **solost**. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/42 "2022-12-29T17:10:51Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > When I was 10 or so, I watched a lot of Little Rascals/Our Gang. Looking back, those series strike me as very progressive for the 1930s and '40s. Buckwheat and Stymie (I don’t recall any black girls; were there any?) were seen in the classroom with the white kids, and eating with them, playing with them, and in at least one instance that I recall, being served in the same stores as the white kids. > [@RealityChuck](#): > > society accepted black children in movies quite readily It’s my impression, though I might be wrong, that in some areas of the country, although there was segregation of adults, pre-pubertal black and white children often played together on a fairly equal basis, and the separation and enforcement of unequal status didn’t start until they were in their teens. If that’s correct, then even in heavily Jim Crow areas shows including mixed groups of young children might have been acceptable when showing similar equality among adults or even teens wouldn’t have been. It would be relatively consistent with an attitude that Black people were “childlike”. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/43 "2022-12-29T18:06:32Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > One other point about Jack Webb. He was the unofficial public relations department for the LAPD which at the time was trying to shed the racist Neanderthal image they acquired two years earlier in Watts. I recall an episode of _Dragnet_ where Friday goes in front of a citizen’s group and answers their questions about the police. I’m pretty sure the whole point was to have the show rebut common criticism about the cops at the time. The one that sticks out to me is a guy who demands to know why the LAPD won’t hire Mexicans, and the defense is, “It’s not personal against Mexicans. We want big strong dudes to be cops, and you guys are just too short.” > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Seems to me that the implication of that is that the realtors work only with the Black community. It’s advanced if it shows an actual “equal” with its “separate”; but it’s still assuming at least de facto segregation. I’m pretty sure that’s just what renting/buying was like at the time. There was a _lot_ of segregation in the country, even in states without explicit Jim Crow laws, and “redline” policies which forbade people of color from buying or renting in white neighborhoods were super common. It would not surprise me at all if, in LA, there were Black and White realty companies that catered specifically to their specific demographics, including having realtors that largely matched the race of their customers. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/44 "2022-12-29T19:30:27Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I recall an episode of _Dragnet_ where Friday goes in front of a citizen’s group and answers their questions about the police. I’m pretty sure the whole point was to have the show rebut common criticism about the cops at the time. The one that sticks out to me is a guy who demands to know why the LAPD won’t hire Mexicans, and the defense is, “It’s not personal against Mexicans. We want big strong dudes to be cops, and you guys are just too short.” Well, Friday didn’t say “we don’t hire Mexican-Americans because you’re too short”. He made it clear that the height requirement applied to everyone, regardless of national origin, and cited data indicating that taller officers were much less frequently injured on the job. While such a policy could act as systemic discrimination against Mexican-Americans, it doesn’t seem to me a totally unreasonable policy, especially if the Friday cited data was true. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/45 "2022-12-29T19:46:51Z")
Even if Mexicans, at that time and place, were on average shorter than Anglos, I would find it hard to believe that no Mexican applicants met the height requirement. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/46 "2022-12-29T20:06:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Even if Mexicans, at that time and place, were on average shorter than Anglos, I would find it hard to believe that no Mexican applicants met the height requirement. I wonder what the actual height requirement was. Because Fridays longtime partner played by Harry Morgan was 5’6”. Webb was at most 5’10”. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/47 "2022-12-29T20:07:40Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The one that sticks out to me is a guy who demands to know why the LAPD won’t hire Mexicans, and the defense is, “It’s not personal against Mexicans. We want big strong dudes to be cops, and you guys are just too short.” According to an article I found, it wasn’t quite that explicit. > [@](#): > > Then a Latino man came to the microphone. He said that he applied for a job with the LAPD and was denied. He demanded to know why the LAPD was prejudiced against Mexicans. > > “I can assure you that it wasn’t because you’re a Mexican American,” Sgt. Friday assures him. “Just offhand, I’d guess you were rejected because of the height requirements.” > > The man acknowledged that he wasn’t nearly 5 foot 8, but said he could take care of himself and knew judo. “What’s height got to do with it?” he asked. Sgt. Friday answered that in the police department’s experience, “a taller man is less likely to have to take care of himself, as you put it. Studies have proven that the injury rate is much higher for shorter policemen.” > **[How Television Shaped America's Decades-Long Blindness to Police Brutality](https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2015/06/the-brutal-facts-that-sergeant-joe-friday-ignored/395591/)** > > In the most influential police procedural ever, even Joe Friday, America’s archetypal “good cop,” was blind to the problem. Of course, it’s a crock of shit. Harry Morgan, who played Officer Bill Gannon, was all of 5’6”. And in 1997, the LA Times noted the the LAPD abolished a height requirement of only 5 feet. (But this is pretty far afield from the thread topic) > **[Minimum Height Rule for LAPD Officers Eliminated](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1997-02-19-me-30193-story.html)** > > The Los Angeles Police Commission on Tuesday abolished a requirement that officers stand at least 5 feet tall to join the LAPD. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/48 "2022-12-29T20:21:46Z")
Getting back to the OP, I don’t think that we’ve mentioned Rochester on the Jack Bennie show. Yes, he was Jack Bennie’s chauffeur/valet, but he was not treated as the butt of jokes. To the contrary, he was often wisecracking and funny. > [@](#): > > One night on the show, Rochester was going to a party. As he left, Benny said, “Rochester, be sure to come home at a reasonable hour.” Rochester then politely responded by saying, “Yes, sir. You’re [sic] reasonable or my reasonable?”… > > In one episode, Benny asked Rochester to answer the door; Rochester replied, “Boss, you’re nearer to it than I am.”… > **[Rochester and Jack: Breaking Racial Barriers](https://hometownstohollywood.com/editorials/rochester-and-jack-breaking-racial-barriers/)** > > Jack Benny is remembered as one of the leading entertainers of the 20th century. His regular radio and television programs had an incredible influence on the sitcom genre. Yet, if Benny’s program w… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/49 "2022-12-29T21:09:07Z")
Wiki has a surprisingly detailed discussion of Rochester, Benny and race relations then: [Eddie "Rochester" Anderson - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_%22Rochester%22_Anderson#Progression_of_race_relations) ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/50 "2022-12-29T21:10:42Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It’s my impression, though I might be wrong, that in some areas of the country, although there was segregation of adults, pre-pubertal black and white children often played together on a fairly equal basis, and the separation and enforcement of unequal status didn’t start until they were in their teens. If that’s correct, then even in heavily Jim Crow areas shows including mixed groups of young children might have been acceptable when showing similar equality among adults or even teens wouldn’t have been. One of the weirdest issues during slavery was that white and black children, often half-siblings, were playmates until school age (five to seven). And slave children were often fairly indulged, in an off handed way, until that same age. Often the black and white kids would have been under the supervision of the same black woman. Things changed dramatically at 6 or so.Wealthy white kids started school: poor white kids started chores. Enslaved kids started intense servitude, and whatever humanizing impact you’d hope was created by those early friendships quickly dissolved. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/51 "2022-12-29T22:25:12Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > One of the weirdest issues during slavery was that white and black children, often half-siblings, were playmates until school age (five to seven). And slave children were often fairly indulged, in an off handed way, until that same age. Often the black and white kids would have been under the supervision of the same black woman. I’d understood that they did play together, but that there was very definitely a hierarchical order when they did so. I read that [on the askhistorians subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/9pvdjt/did_the_children_of_american_slave_owners_ever/) with sources cited. Though it does say the hierarchy was more apparent as children got older. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/52 "2022-12-29T23:47:10Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Things changed dramatically at 6 or so. Ah. I had some of the general sense, but the wrong idea as to the cutoff age. Thanks for info. > [@Tzigone](#): > > I’d understood that they did play together, but that there was very definitely a hierarchical order when they did so. I read that [on the askhistorians subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/9pvdjt/did_the_children_of_american_slave_owners_ever/) with sources cited. Though it does say the hierarchy was more apparent as children got older. Thanks for source; I read some of it, other portions didn’t want to load. There seems to be some evidence that it varied considerably from place to place, as well as a lot of lack of evidence – the lives of enslaved children usually not having been well recorded; which isn’t surprising. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2022, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/53 "2022-12-29T23:52:30Z")
That one was kind of a shock. A black guy in a red shirt…and he lives! ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/54 "2022-12-30T00:05:27Z")
In the 1950’s, Betty White hosted an eponymous show. The story has been verified that she was criticized for including Arthur Duncan, a tap dancer and singer, on the broadcast in 1954, since Mr. Duncan was black. Betty White memorably said “live with it”, and Duncan credited her for promoting his career. > **[Was Betty White Slammed for Having Black Tap Dancer Arthur Duncan on Her Show?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/betty-white-arthur-duncan/)** > > Over her decades-long career, 1954’s “The Betty White Show” may have impacted lives in more than one way. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/55 "2022-12-30T02:04:50Z")
In an episode of “The Twilight Zone” (Passage on the Lady Anne, I think) the main character goes to a busy travel agency, and a few desks away from the main character and her agent, there is a Black couple, one of whom was wearing kente cloth. They have no lines - they’re just in the background, but it’s nice to see background characters who are not generic white folks. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/56 "2022-12-30T10:59:43Z")
sheriff married Black woman (not in movie) ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/57 "2022-12-30T11:29:25Z")
…Ironside: S3 E16 “Eden Is the Place We Leave” It’s about a Samoan boxer. The episode unfortunately doesn’t actually feature any Samoan actors (with the Matai laughingly played by [John Marley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Marley) ) but I can hear some Samoan spoken in the background, and my favourite moment is when Ironside enters a room during a feast and yells “Any Palusami?” he then explains the dish to Sanger. “Coconut cream. REAL coconut cream. Baked in taro leaves” said with absolute reverence. If you can try Palusami, then do so. Its delicious. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/177b-3OyANM/hqdefault.jpg "COOK & EAT WITH FAYE | HOW I MAKE PALUSAMI & MAKE IT TASTE GOOD") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=177b-3OyANM) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/58 "2022-12-30T12:36:30Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Harry Morgan, who played Officer Bill Gannon, was all of 5’6”. Officer Gannon became a police officer two years before the minimum height requirement was instituted. (I made this up, but it fits) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/59 "2022-12-30T15:11:39Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > IIRC James Brown claims in the 70s there was some race riots in Detroit he got to calm down by getting on the radio and pleading for peace. Possibly this incident in Boston following the MLK assassination? > **[James Brown calms Boston following the King assassination](https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/james-brown-calms-boston-following-the-king-assassination)** > > On the morning after the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., city officials in Boston, Massachusetts, were scrambling to prepare for an expected second straight night of unrest. Similar preparations were being made in cities across America,... ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222/60 "2022-12-30T15:26:56Z")
**Modnote** : This is a hijack that is not about TV shows. So please drop it or take it to a new thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racial-surprises-on-old-tv-shows/977222.md?page=2)