# Racialism: Everyone's Favorite Politics **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715 "2018-07-11T14:56:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/261 "2018-07-13T17:31:33Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > But at some point we have to say, we are done. It could be in 5 years or 50 years but this cannot go on forever under the notion that society is too racist for blacks to prosper despite no de jure discrimination. Why? _De jure_, black people had the vote after the civil war. _De jure_, black people have been completely equal since 1964. What, is 50 years not enough? Or is de facto racism that continues to this day still important? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/262 "2018-07-13T17:39:37Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Is “pulled over for being Hispanic” a thing? Yes absolutely ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/263 "2018-07-13T17:41:21Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Yes absolutely For example…?(not doubting you, but a cite would strengthen the claim). ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/264 "2018-07-13T17:49:42Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Do you know how hospital triage works? I suppose not, with that reply. Does the emergency room devote all of its resources to the most critical patient, or do they simply prioritize the resources based on need? If the idea is just to stabilize the patient then I think we can get rid of affirmative action entirely. I thought you were saying that we have to try and get African Americans up to where whites are. > [@](#): > > When you say: > > How do we look to achieve a more equitable society without recognizing one of the greatest causes of inequality? Once again, how the hell does that translate into 'lets ignore the effects of bigotry" I can see how it translates to “we will no longer be able to do stuff that is race based because it will become illegal so lets find another way” And there are a LOT of causes of inequality. Some of them are perfectly acceptable because we are not all equal. But I don’t think equality of result is what we should be striving for. > [@](#): > > Yes, pretty much. Historical or current, racial inequality is there because people were treated differently based on the color of their skin. > > Can you explain where racial inequality comes from if it doesn’t come from treating people differently based on their skin color? There are a lot of places it can come from: culture expectations immigration patterns racism probably a half dozen other things I haven’t thought of But the notion that racism is responsible for all differences between races seems like a race-centric notion. How did Asians close the gap with whites? Did white people suddenly stop being racist against Asians? Are Asians doing better than whites because everyone is treating Asians so well? If so, why did they start treating Asians so well? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/265 "2018-07-13T17:55:52Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How did Asians close the gap with whites? Did white people suddenly stop being racist against Asians? Are Asians doing better than whites because everyone is treating Asians so well? If so, why did they start treating Asians so well? I think we’ve been over this before – self-selected immigrant groups from relatively far away, like (in America) Jews, Asians, Nigerians, etc., are generally the best and brightest of their home countries and regions – those with the means, drive, and abilities to make the long and costly journey – and it’s no surprise that they tend to, statistically, achieve highly. Groups that are not self-selected – Native Americans and African Americans being the most prominent examples – generally have significantly lower statistical levels of achievement. Especially if they’ve been historically brutalized. It should be absolutely no surprise to anyone that those groups with the least choice in their arrival/forced migration into (or around) the US, and those groups that were treated by far the worst by government, society, and institutions, (Native Americans and African Americans) are generally at the bottom of various statistical indicators. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/266 "2018-07-13T17:58:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > But the notion that racism is responsible for all differences between races seems like a race-centric notion. Who here is saying that racism is responsible for all the differences between races? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/267 "2018-07-13T17:58:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > For example…?(not doubting you, but a cite would strengthen the claim). Joe Arpaio was under Federal court orders to end his racial profiling of Hispanics for immigration enforcement. The cases that led to those orders were generally related to his deputies pulling people over for being Hispanic. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/268 "2018-07-13T18:07:37Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Joe Arpaio was under Federal court orders to end his racial profiling of Hispanics for immigration enforcement. The cases that led to those orders were generally related to his deputies pulling people over for being Hispanic. Good example. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/269 "2018-07-13T18:10:06Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Last time I checked bigots didn’t base their hatred on whether a person is a direct descendent of a slave or not. I thought Affirmative Action meant to remedy past injustices not to counter the fact that bigots exist. Lets imagine a world where we never had slavery or jim crow. The laws were always the way they are now, prohibiting discrimination by the government, employers and schools BUT bigotry against blacks still existed. This is the world that the children of African immigrants are born into. Would we have AA in that world? Should we? Is it hard to be black in this country? Yes, a lot harder than being white. Harder than being Asian. This country owes a debt to the descendants of slaves and American Indians that it does not owe to the children of African immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/270 "2018-07-13T18:11:16Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m not SAYING anything. I’m ASKING you if Asians are underrepresented in colleges due to past injustices. Are they? Yes. Past and present injustices. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/271 "2018-07-13T18:12:38Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yes. Past and present injustices. What are the present injustices, and how might they be alleviated? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/272 "2018-07-13T18:13:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I thought Affirmative Action meant to remedy past injustices not to counter the fact that bigots exist. What made you think this? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/273 "2018-07-13T18:13:42Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I thought Affirmative Action meant to remedy past injustices not to counter the fact that bigots exist. It’s meant to remedy present injustice as well. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/274 "2018-07-13T18:14:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > It would be a law requiring affirmative action directed specifically at the descendants of slaves for the next X years to be renewed every X years. That would be based on a very faulty premise; that black people who aren’t the descendants of slaves are somehow not affected by racism. Racism is not something that stopped happening in 1865. Or 1954. Or 1964. Or 2008. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I would want to run studies looking at the cause of the disparities and try to address them rather than indefinitely maintain a system where there large gaps in academic achievement along racial lines. No problem with this. As long as the studies are followed by genuine and prompt action. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > But at some point we have to say, we are done. It could be in 5 years or 50 years but this cannot go on forever under the notion that society is too racist for blacks to prosper despite no de jure discrimination. We can say we’re done when we are done. We can stop when racism is gone. Not every single racist incident but the general pattern of racism. That may sound like I’m asking for the impossible. But I don’t believe that. In my own lifetime, I’ve seen a huge decrease in racism. We’re winning this fight (and maybe that’s what’s bothering some people). In my more hopeful moments, I like to think that the Trump administration is just racism making its last stand. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/275 "2018-07-13T18:14:59Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Is “pulled over for being Hispanic” a thing? Oh yes, definitely. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/276 "2018-07-13T18:17:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yes. Past and present injustices. Can you tell me what cite and/or metric you are using to determine your answer? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/277 "2018-07-13T18:33:47Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Why? _De jure_, black people had the vote after the civil war. _De jure_, black people have been completely equal since 1964. What, is 50 years not enough? Or is de facto racism that continues to this day still important? What de facto discrimination continues today? Its not in college admissions. Its not in government contracting. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/278 "2018-07-13T18:38:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think we’ve been over this before – self-selected immigrant groups from relatively far away, like (in America) Jews, Asians, Nigerians, etc., are generally the best and brightest of their home countries and regions – those with the means, drive, and abilities to make the long and costly journey – and it’s no surprise that they tend to, statistically, achieve highly. Groups that are not self-selected – Native Americans and African Americans being the most prominent examples – generally have significantly lower statistical levels of achievement. Especially if they’ve been historically brutalized. It should be absolutely no surprise to anyone that those groups with the least choice in their arrival/forced migration into (or around) the US, and those groups that were treated by far the worst by government, society, and institutions, (Native Americans and African Americans) are generally at the bottom of various statistical indicators. Yes, we have been over this before and I brought up Vietnamese refugees and I was met with claims that the refugees came over with gold bars stuck down their pants. At some point you have to stop making excuses for the underachievement of the black community and take a look at they black community to see what they might be doing wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/279 "2018-07-13T18:39:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Who here is saying that racism is responsible for all the differences between races? k9bfreiender. It was right there in the post you just quoted. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/280 "2018-07-13T18:41:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What are the present injustices, and how might they be alleviated? They are being discriminated against in the college admissions process. The solution would be to stop discriminating against them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715.md?page=15)