# Racialism: Everyone's Favorite Politics **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715 "2018-07-11T14:56:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/521 "2018-07-25T17:34:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t know what you are trying to get at. Tell me what you are trying to get me to say and i will tell you if I agree. > > If you can define any current racism or laws that are causing black women to get pregnant as teenagers, causing black women to have children out of wedlock, black men to abandon their families, black students to drop out of school, black men to commit more violent crimes, please tell me. We will fight it together to stamp it out. > > If you are saying that the segregation of 3 generations ago and the slavery of 15 generations ago is somehow caused the rate of these things to actually rise after the civil rights movement, you are going to have to connect those dots for me. > > If not then wtf are you trying to say exactly? Or are you just trying to get me to say something in particular. If the latter just tell me what you think I am thinking and I will tell you if you are correct. My answer: 1. There are some circumstances, regardless of culture, in which a human being is more likely to engage in risky behavior, including unprotected sex. Some of these circumstances might be things like feelings of hopelessness, feelings of a lack of safety, reactions to trauma, disrupted family life, and much more. 2. Due to a combination of larger policies and practices (past and present), including institutional discrimination and much more, black children are more likely to face these circumstances than white children, on average. If you disagree, please try and be very specific – which of the above assertions do you disagree with? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/522 "2018-07-25T18:12:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > These fantasy “racialists” sound like bad people, and I join you in rejecting such evil fantasy people, and in support of individualism, which IMO doesn’t conflict with anything I’ve said. So you reject racial classification in government policy? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/523 "2018-07-25T18:15:56Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > So you reject racial classification in government policy? Those things are not necessarily in conflict. And it depends on the policy in question. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/524 "2018-07-25T19:09:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Those things are not necessarily in conflict. And it depends on the policy in question. So you can promote the grouping of individuals and still be an individualist? Racialists promote the grouping of people by races. Individualists do not. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/525 "2018-07-25T19:34:03Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > So you can promote the grouping of individuals and still be an individualist? Racialists promote the grouping of people by races. Individualists do not. LOL… apparently individualists like you are quite happy to “promote the grouping of individuals” into gropus like “racialists” and individualists. I’ve also frequently heard you “promote the gropuing of individuals” into groups like “statists”, socialists, and many more groups. Seriously. This is gibberish. Recognizing that social categorizations exist is a reasonable thing to do, and a reasonable thing to take into account when considering public policy. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/526 "2018-07-25T19:37:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > LOL… apparently individualists like you are quite happy to “promote the grouping of individuals” into gropus like “racialists” and individualists. I’ve also frequently heard you “promote the gropuing of individuals” into groups like “statists”, socialists, and many more groups. > > Seriously. This is gibberish. Recognizing that social categorizations exist is a reasonable thing to do, and a reasonable thing to take into account when considering public policy. Well the distinctions are easy to make in those cases. For example, a racialist groups people into races, while an individualist does not. A statist favors a state. A socialist wants the state to commandeer private property. I am still not clear on who is white and who is black to the racialists. Can you help me? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/527 "2018-07-25T19:45:07Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Well the distinctions are easy to make in those cases. For example, a racialist groups people into races, while an individualist does not. A statist favors a state. A socialist wants the state to commandeer private property. So then you’ve answered your own questions – according to **WillFarnaby** , you can indeed promote the grouping of individuals and still be an individualist. > [@](#): > > I am still not clear on who is white and who is black to the racialists. Can you help me? You’re the one who created this weird grouping “racialists”, so presumably you’ve come up with some worldbuilding and backstory for them. I’m not good at filling in details for fantasy groupings of people, so I don’t think I can help you here. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/528 "2018-07-25T19:57:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So then you’ve answered your own questions – according to **WillFarnaby** , you can indeed promote the grouping of individuals and still be an individualist. > > You’re the one who created this weird grouping “racialists”, so presumably you’ve come up with some worldbuilding and backstory for them. I’m not good at filling in details for fantasy groupings of people, so I don’t think I can help you here. Who is black? Who is white? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/529 "2018-07-25T20:00:04Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Well the distinctions are easy to make in those cases. For example, a racialist groups people into races, while an individualist does not. A statist favors a state. A socialist wants the state to commandeer private property. > > I am still not clear on who is white and who is black to the racialists. Can you help me? How about this? Take a good hard look at those that are the _real_ problem here, _the racists_, and see who they attack as “black” and who they support as “white”, then take the group of people that are trying to fight those that are racists and try to convince us that the latter group of people are the _real_ problem. The labeling was already done by the racists, as much as you would like for us to ignore that fact. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/530 "2018-07-25T20:01:14Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Who is black? > > Who is white? Ask those that hate. Ask the _racists_. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/531 "2018-07-25T20:03:26Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Who is black? > > Who is white? That’s a very complicated question, and entire books have been written on the topic. I pointed you towards a decent starting point earlier in the thread; > **[Race and ethnicity in the United States](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States)** > > The United States has a racially and ethnically diverse population. At the federal level, race and ethnicity have been categorized separately. The most recent United States census recognized five racial categories (White, Black, Native American/Alaska Native, Asian, and Native Hawaiian/Other Pacific Islander), as well as people who belong to two or more of the racial categories. The United States also recognizes the broader notion of ethnicity. The 2000 census and 2010 American Commun White Am... ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/532 "2018-07-25T20:04:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s a very complicated question, and entire books have been written on the topic. I pointed you towards a good starting point earlier in the thread; can’t link right now. Are these books consulted when the legislation is drawn up? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/533 "2018-07-25T20:06:15Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Are these books consulted when the legislation is drawn up? I hope so, but I don’t know for sure. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/534 "2018-07-25T20:07:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Ask those that hate. Ask the _racists_. They don’t know either from what I’ve heard. The white nationalists/alt-right types can’t give a good answer either. Though most people considered racist are not actually advocating for race-based legislation. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/535 "2018-07-25T20:10:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I hope so, but I don’t know for sure. I doubt it. I think it’s more of a power politics sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/536 "2018-07-25T20:17:38Z")
The question of how to precisely define race is very difficult, but the question of whether racism exists is not. We liberals are interested in reversing the effects of racism, not promoting the well-being of people with certain DNA. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/537 "2018-07-25T20:19:40Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > They don’t know either from what I’ve heard. The white nationalists/alt-right types can’t give a good answer either. They can’t? They racists I’ve seen throughout my life didn’t seem to hesitate one whit when it came to pointing out those they hated. > [@](#): > > Though most people considered racist are not actually advocating for race-based legislation. They don’t? [This says differently.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_United_States) Or is the only race-based legislation you consider to be the problem is that legislation that _opposes_ past and current racism? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/538 "2018-07-25T20:20:50Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Who is black? > > Who is white? Question. Let’s say you were at a jobsite and two guys were working on the other side, one black, one white. Another guy comes up to you and give you a tool and says “Hey can you run this over to Mike over there.” “Which one is Mike?” “The black guy.” Are you really saying you’d still be unable to figure out who the guy was talking about? That you’d say something like “Black guy? What’s a black guy?” ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/539 "2018-07-25T20:24:36Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The question of how to precisely define race is very difficult, but the question of whether racism exists is not. We liberals are interested in reversing the effects of racism, not promoting the well-being of people with certain DNA. How do you know if someone is being adversely effected by racism? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/540 "2018-07-25T20:26:38Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They can’t? They racists I’ve seen throughout my life didn’t seem to hesitate one whit when it came to pointing out those they hated.They don’t? [This says differently.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_United_States) Or is the only race-based legislation you consider to be the problem is that legislation that _opposes_ past and current racism? No, the “top” minds like Richard Spencer and those guys can’t give a good answer believe it or not. Oh and I meant in 2018. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715.md?page=28)