# Racialism: Everyone's Favorite Politics **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715 "2018-07-11T14:56:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/561 "2018-07-26T12:49:18Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > [List of ethnic groups in the United States by household income - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income) > > Since **andy** has identified average income as being some sort of indicator for discrimination, let’s look at the above list under the heading “By ancestry”. This gives us a more nuanced picture of supposed race and income. You will find that Nigerian-Americans make slightly more than Scotch-Irish-Americans, French-Americans, and Yugoslavian-Americans. Maybe it isn’t so easy to pinpoint who is experiencing racism in a way that adversely effects them. Funny how you both mischaracterize what I’ve said, and repeat my point about Nigerian American immigrants, that I’ve made multiple times, in this thread and others. I’ve asked you before, but you never listen - stop trying to read my mind. You always get it wrong. Unless you’ve got an exact quote from me, don’t bother trying to paraphrase my views. You always get it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/562 "2018-07-26T12:49:59Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > What is a minority? Americans of German descent are minorities, right? People with blonde hair are minorities. People with blue eyes are minorities. > > Have I experienced discrimination? Probably not as much as many “black” people, but probably more than some of them. Americans live many different lives in many different situations. Maybe I had an interview with a black person that didn’t like people with blonde hair. Maybe I didn’t get the job. Will Blue Ivy Carter experience more intense negative consequences of discrimination than will every single “white” person in the US? I doubt it. > > What if a “black” person has grown up with little to no contact with “whites”? What if a “white” person was picked on in a majority “black” HS. > > Do you think Blue Ivy Carter will experience the discrimination a “white” mentally disabled person will experience? > > Supporters of race-based policies claim to support equality for all, but that is not possible in a world of individuals. Sounds like a bunch of appeals to ignorance to make the point that discrimination basically doesn’t exist. ETA: and it sounds like the answer is a clear no, that you have never lived as a minority that experienced ongoing discrimination. Perhaps you should walk a mile in someone else’s shoes? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/563 "2018-07-26T12:54:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I can think of two scenarios that come to mind rather easily – for the first, not having condoms at hand, and for the second, being incarcerated. Do you believe there aren’t any others? Condoms are available for less than a dollar apiece at virtually every drugstore or supermarket in America, are sold thru vending machines, and many family planning clinics give them away for free. How does racism make condoms less available to blacks than to Asians, Jews, whites, or Hispanics? Please be specific. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/564 "2018-07-26T13:05:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Condoms are available for less than a dollar apiece at virtually every drugstore or supermarket in America, are sold thru vending machines, and many family planning clinics give them away for free. How does racism make condoms less available to blacks than to Asians, Jews, whites, or Hispanics? Please be specific. > > Regards, > Shodan I offered hypothetical explanations, to make the point that my supposition could be logical. Not that these were necessarily the explanations. Do you believe that there are no circumstances in which a human being, regardless of culture, might be more likely to have unprotected sex or engage in other risky behaviors? If not, then the only thing we disagree on is whether black people face such circumstances more often than white people in America. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/565 "2018-07-26T13:23:40Z")
Even if you think “black culture” is the answer, what does that mean? What is the problem, specifically, with the culture of many of the Americans among my family in friends? I’m unaware of any cultural practice they take part in that results in a greater likelihood of single parentage, or drug use, or criminal behavior, or devaluing education (on average, the black people in my family have more years of education/degrees than the white people), etc. Are they not authentically black? Is their culture not black or authentically black? What cultural practices within the utterly enormous, millions-strong category of “black culture” in America are responsible for these bad things? Please be specific. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/566 "2018-07-26T13:29:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you don’t believe that there exists any circumstance in which a human being, regardless of culture, is more likely to have unprotected sex or not be available as a father? > > I can think of two scenarios that come to mind rather easily – for the first, not having condoms at hand, and for the second, being incarcerated. Do you believe there aren’t any others? No, not in the real world. Not at levels sufficient to explain the problem. In what way do asians have more condoms on hand than blacks? Over 70% of black babies are born out of wedlock and a similar percentage of black children are raised in single parent homes. What percentage of black men do you think are in prison? Are they all impregnating black women just as they ship off to prison? This effort to make everything “complicated” so that the black community never has to take responsibility for fixing things that are within their power to fix (even if the origin of the problem was not with them) is not doing them any favors. I think you’re coddling the black community and its hurting them, I know its all well intentioned but ultimately, I think it teaches that community a form of learned helplessness. > **[CNN's Don Lemon says more than 72 percent of African-American births are out...](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2013/jul/29/don-lemon/cnns-don-lemon-says-more-72-percent-african-americ/)** > > In the middle of a national conversation about race following the George Zimmerman acquittal, CNN anchor Don Lemon gave I don’t know what the other 4 things Don Lemon pointed out but I suspect the list looks awfully close to the 5 things in the video that was mocked by Huey Freeman in this post: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21091661&postcount=347](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21091661&postcount=347) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/567 "2018-07-26T13:31:59Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > No, not in the real world. Not at levels sufficient to explain the problem. Then at least we’ve found the root of the disagreement. You don’t believe that there are circumstances “in the real world” that can result in greater likelihoods of a human being, regardless of culture, engaging in these negative behaviors. I think that’s absolutly, gobsmackingly nuts (truly – one of the craziest assertions I’ve ever seen on the Dope!), but that’s okay. We don’t have to keep going round in circles now that we’ve found it. Snipping the rest since it’s pretty much completely irrelevant to anything I’ve said. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/568 "2018-07-26T13:32:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That you think “ask the racists” means “ask folks like the KKK” is indicative of one large aspect of the problem - BBQ Becky & Permit Patty are as much the racists under consideration as the Imperial Wizard of the KKK. That you think that society is still being run by the whims of “those that hate” is indicative of another large aspect of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/569 "2018-07-26T13:43:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Even if you think “black culture” is the answer, what does that mean? What is the problem, specifically, with the culture of many of the Americans among my family in friends? I’m unaware of any cultural practice they take part in that results in a greater likelihood of single parentage, or drug use, or criminal behavior, or devaluing education (on average, the black people in my family have more years of education/degrees than the white people), etc. Are they not authentically black? Is their culture not black or authentically black? What cultural practices within the utterly enormous, millions-strong category of “black culture” in America are responsible for these bad things? > > Please be specific. How many members of your friends and family are single mothers or men who have abandoned their children? There are certainly elements of black culture that doesn’t have these problems, well educated wealthier blacks encounter these problems much les frequently. But the level of out of wedlock births in poor black communities is significantly larger than out of wedlock births in equally poor Hispanic, white and asian communities. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/570 "2018-07-26T13:45:00Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Please be specific. If you are going to do nothing but obfuscate and dodge and refuse to back up what you say, you don’t get to ask this. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/571 "2018-07-26T13:47:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If you are going to do nothing but obfuscate and dodge and refuse to back up what you say, you don’t get to ask this. > > Regards, > Shodan You didn’t ask me about any actual assertions. You asked me about a hypothetical logical exercise. I’m asking about actual assertions people have made. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/572 "2018-07-26T13:49:56Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > How many members of your friends and family are single mothers or men who have abandoned their children? > > There are certainly elements of black culture that doesn’t have these problems, well educated wealthier blacks encounter these problems much les frequently. But the level of out of wedlock births in poor black communities is significantly larger than out of wedlock births in equally poor Hispanic, white and asian communities. This doesn’t answer my question at all. What cultural practices? How are they practices of “black culture”? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/573 "2018-07-26T14:10:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Funny how you both mischaracterize what I’ve said, and repeat my point about Nigerian American immigrants, that I’ve made multiple times, in this thread and others. > > I’ve asked you before, but you never listen - stop trying to read my mind. You always get it wrong. Unless you’ve got an exact quote from me, don’t bother trying to paraphrase my views. You always get it wrong. Yes reading comprehension is at a nadir. I’m not trying to read your mind. I didn’t say anything about your rather cartoonish views on race. You submitted income as an indicator of discrimination. I conceded that and asked some questions. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/574 "2018-07-26T14:11:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If you are going to do nothing but obfuscate and dodge and refuse to back up what you say, you don’t get to ask this. > > Regards, > Shodan Indeed this is the M.O. for this guy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/575 "2018-07-26T14:16:38Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Yes reading comprehension is at a nadir. > > I’m not trying to read your mind. I didn’t say anything about your rather cartoonish views on race. You submitted income as an indicator of discrimination. I conceded that and asked some questions. Where did I “submit income as an indicator of discrimination”? These are very complex issues. I’m pretty sure I didn’t say something so simplistic. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/576 "2018-07-26T14:19:50Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Sounds like a bunch of appeals to ignorance to make the point that discrimination basically doesn’t exist. > > ETA: and it sounds like the answer is a clear no, that you have never lived as a minority that experienced ongoing discrimination. Perhaps you should walk a mile in someone else’s shoes? If that’s what you got from a post in which I said discrimination effects people differently, I have a comfy civil service job for you. Do you think Blue Ivy Carter, who most people would consider “black”, will experience negative effects of discrimination above the level of all “white” people? Of course you won’t answer a simple question. The racialists are not concerned about equality for all, if they were they would not support policies to manipulate arbitrary statistics of huge aggregates. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/577 "2018-07-26T14:21:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Where did I “submit income as an indicator of discrimination”? These are very complex issues. I’m pretty sure I didn’t say something so simplistic. 506 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/578 "2018-07-26T14:24:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Where did I “submit income as an indicator of discrimination”? These are very complex issues. I’m pretty sure I didn’t say something so simplistic. These issues are becoming “complex” to the point of being indecipherable and the “complexity” has gotten to the point of explaining away pretty much anything and everything that you don’t like. I could just as easily dismiss racism on the ground that “its complicated” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/579 "2018-07-26T14:24:36Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > 506 That post did not contain anything like “income is an indicator of discrimination”. These are very complicated issues, and usually can’t be summed up so simplistically. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/580 "2018-07-26T14:27:56Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > These issues are becoming “complex” to the point of being indecipherable and the “complexity” has gotten to the point of explaining away pretty much anything and everything that you don’t like. > > I could just as easily dismiss racism on the ground that “its complicated” Complicated issues are complicated. Dismiss anything you like. I’m just trying my best to explain my views on a very complicated set of issues. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715.md?page=30)