# Racialism: Everyone's Favorite Politics **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 11, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715 "2018-07-11T14:56:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/581 "2018-07-26T14:27:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That post did not contain anything like “income is an indicator of discrimination”. > > These are very complicated issues, and usually can’t be summed up so simplistically. In post 506, you pointed to income statistics in order to further a claim that blacks are dicriminated against. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/582 "2018-07-26T14:31:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Complicated issues are complicated. Dismiss anything you like. I’m just trying my best to explain my views on a very complicated set of issues. Nigerian-Americans are viewed by society as “black”. What is your evidence that Nigerian-Americans are discriminated against? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/583 "2018-07-26T14:31:34Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > In post 506, you pointed to income statistics in order to further a claim that blacks are dicriminated against. No I didn’t. I brought up some articles on statistical analyses that I thought were very interesting with regards to the issue we’re discussing. If you disagree with a specific assertion in that post, please point to it – specifically – and I’ll respond. But when you keep trying to paraphrase me, you’re just going to continue to fail. If you want to challenge a point I’ve made, please be very specific about which specific point you’re challenging. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/584 "2018-07-26T14:32:48Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Nigerian-Americans are viewed by society as “black”. So you’ve finally managed to answer your own main question in this thread? Good for you! > [@](#): > > What is your evidence that Nigerian-Americans are discriminated against? Not sure what this is regarding. If you want to challenge a specific claim I’ve made, then please point to the specific claim. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/585 "2018-07-26T14:34:03Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Do you think Blue Ivy Carter, who most people would consider “black”, will experience negative effects of discrimination above the level of all “white” people? Of course you won’t answer a simple question. Rich and famous black people still experience race-based discrimination. I’m not sure what use there is to comparing the kid of a billionaire to every white person in America, the vast majority of whom will not experience race-based discrimination. > [@](#): > > The racialists are not concerned about equality for all, if they were they would not support policies to manipulate arbitrary statistics of huge aggregates. Can I ask you a few questions? 1. Some people say that racism no longer exists in American society and politics. Would you say that: a. Racism remains a major problem in our society b. Racism exists today but is not a major problem c. Racism once existed but no longer exists in our society d. Racism has never been a major problem in our society 2. How serious a problem do you think racial discrimination against blacks is in this country? a. Extremely serious b. Very serious c. Somewhat serious d. Not so serious e. Not serious at all 3. Have you experienced discrimination in the workplace based on your race? a. Yes b. No c. Not employed ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/586 "2018-07-26T14:34:17Z")
The idea that something so complicated can be ameliorated by national legislation that lacks any nuance at all, and makes blanket claims about which massive groups experience discrimination, is quite naive. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/587 "2018-07-26T14:36:41Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The idea that something so complicated can be ameliorated by national legislation that lacks any nuance at all, and makes blanket claims about which massive groups experience discrimination, is quite naive. Egads! A reasonable assertion! Great job. I’m very much with you, and I support nuanced legislation, and making specific and focused claims when trying to support such nuanced legislation. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/588 "2018-07-26T14:37:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you’ve finally managed to answer your own main question in this thread? Good for you! > > Not sure what this is regarding. If you want to challenge a specific claim I’ve made, then please point to the specific claim. No the question was “which people are considered by racialists to belong to a specific race for the purposes of political policy”. It remains unanswered. I’m asking another question. Is there evidence that Nigerian-Americans are discriminated against? If so, what is it? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/589 "2018-07-26T14:38:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Egads! A reasonable assertion! Great job. I’m very much with you, and I support nuanced legislation, and making specific and focused claims when trying to support such nuanced legislation. Do you consider affirmative action to be a nuanced policy? Do you support that policy? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/590 "2018-07-26T14:38:59Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > That you think that society is still being run by the whims of “those that hate” is indicative of another large aspect of the problem. “Not being wilfully blind” is hardly what I’d characterise as an indicator of an aspect of the problem, no. I mean, just look at the current American government and its policies, and tell me it’s _not_ driven by “those who hate”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/591 "2018-07-26T14:40:19Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Do you consider affirmative action to be a nuanced policy? > > Do you support that policy? In some cases, and in some cases. I’d ask which specific policies/laws/bills you’re referring to, but perhaps we should discuss AA in one of the many AA threads. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/592 "2018-07-26T14:45:24Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Rich and famous black people still experience race-based discrimination. I’m not sure what use there is to comparing the kid of a billionaire to every white person in America, the vast majority of whom will not experience race-based discrimination. Can you provide evidence that black millionaires experience negative effects of discrimination? > [@](#): > > Can I ask you a few questions? > > 1. Some people say that racism no longer exists in American society and politics. Would you say that: > a. Racism remains a major problem in our society > b. Racism exists today but is not a major problem > c. Racism once existed but no longer exists in our society > d. Racism has never been a major problem in our society > > 2. How serious a problem do you think racial discrimination against blacks is in this country? > a. Extremely serious > b. Very serious > c. Somewhat serious > d. Not so serious > e. Not serious at all > > 3. Have you experienced discrimination in the workplace based on your race? > a. Yes > b. No > c. Not employed 1)I have made my thoughts on racism clear in the OP. There are different types of racism that exist. Some I consider a problem, some that I do not. Political racism is a problem. Some racism is harmless, and not a big problem. 1. I think racial discrimination occurs on an individual level. Political racism against blacks is extremely serious. Some racism against blacks is not serious at all. 2. I couldn’t tell you, bud. I’m not in anyone’s head. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/593 "2018-07-26T14:46:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In some cases, and in some cases. I’d ask which specific policies/laws/bills you’re referring to, but perhaps we should discuss AA in one of the many AA threads. Do AA policies address the fact that some “white” people experience negative effects of racism while some “black” people do not? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/594 "2018-07-26T14:48:27Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > “Not being wilfully blind” is hardly what I’d characterise as an indicator of an aspect of the problem, no. > > I mean, just look at the current American government and its policies, and tell me it’s _not_ driven by “those who hate”. Was the American government driven by hate in 2009? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/595 "2018-07-26T14:56:55Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Can you provide evidence that black millionaires experience negative effects of discrimination? > > 1)I have made my thoughts on racism clear in the OP. There are different types of racism that exist. Some I consider a problem, some that I do not. Political racism is a problem. Some racism is harmless, and not a big problem. > > 1. I think racial discrimination occurs on an individual level. Political racism against blacks is extremely serious. Some racism against blacks is not serious at all. > > 2. I couldn’t tell you, bud. I’m not in anyone’s head. Please answer with the multiple choices provided. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/596 "2018-07-26T14:57:09Z")
Why do some people appear think that the justice of an outcome can be determined by looking at averages? I determine what is not just by looking at the effects on the individual. If a black guy doesn’t get a job because he is black, that is not just. If black unemployment is higher than white unemployment, that is neither just nor unjust based on that fact alone. Some people look at all the black people in prison for victimless crimes and say that it is unjust because of the distribution. If anyone is in prison for a victimless crime, it is unjust regardless of the person’s perceived race. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/597 "2018-07-26T15:03:01Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Please answer with the multiple choices provided. How bureaucratic is the insistence on mindless forms and trouble with comprehension beyond that. [https://memegenerator.net/instance/78156026/hermes-conrad-were-talking-about-a-lot-of-things](https://memegenerator.net/instance/78156026/hermes-conrad-were-talking-about-a-lot-of-things) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/598 "2018-07-26T15:13:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Even if you think “black culture” is the answer, what does that mean? What is the problem, specifically, with the culture of many of the Americans among my family in friends? I’m unaware of any cultural practice they take part in that results in a greater likelihood of single parentage, or drug use, or criminal behavior, or devaluing education (on average, the black people in my family have more years of education/degrees than the white people), etc. Are they not authentically black? Is their culture not black or authentically black? What cultural practices within the utterly enormous, millions-strong category of “black culture” in America are responsible for these bad things? > > Please be specific. No, your friends and family are NOT typical. Well educated black folks are not where the problem is. I guess the particular toxic elements I am talking about are most prevalent in communities that are predominantly black and poor. I see a level of contempt for women that is not that common in other poor communities. There is a vilification and slander of black women, they’re “hoes and bitches” I think this can lead to men being less concerned about pregnancy because they don’t really bear most of the burden of pregnancy. Especially if it is socially acceptable to abandon a woman that is pregnant with your child. I understand that black people can endearingly refer to each other as niggahs. But I also hear black men them derisively, contemptuously and hatefully referring to other black men as niggers. I don’t see this sort of racist slur being used by other ethnic communities quite as much. I don’t think I’ve ever heard any asian yell “I’m gonna kill you, chink” at another asian during a heated argument. I see a “school is for fools” attitude in the black community that is not present in other poor communities. I see persecution and mockery of studious black boys that I don’t see in other communities. Erkel is unattractive and dorky but that is supposed to be funny, if you portrayed an asian that way, other asians would be offended at the stereotype. They would be offended at the stereotype that studious Asians are also dorky and unattractive. It is a problem throughout the nation but is particularly acute in black communities. Just as a point of reference, the most popular kids in schools in many parts of Asia are often the ones with the best grades, not money, not athletic ability, not beauty, grades. I see a level of glorification of violence and criminality in ganster rap that isn’t just there for entertainment value (like it is for the white kids that listen to this stuff in the suburbs). This might merely be a reflection of facts on the ground but there is a evidence that the culture of ganster rap promotes more violence. It glorifies gangs and gang violence in unconstructive ways. Being a baby daddy does not seem as shameful in the black community as it is in other poor communities. I don’t know how the fuck this sort of dynamic develops and perhaps the absence of fathers based on incarceration made it more acceptable even for fathers that were NOT in jail but that’s fucked up and excusing that sort of behavior because “its complex” is not helping. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/599 "2018-07-26T15:18:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Then at least we’ve found the root of the disagreement. You don’t believe that there are circumstances “in the real world” that can result in greater likelihoods of a human being, regardless of culture, engaging in these negative behaviors. > > I think that’s absolutly, gobsmackingly nuts (truly – one of the craziest assertions I’ve ever seen on the Dope!), but that’s okay. We don’t have to keep going round in circles now that we’ve found it. Snipping the rest since it’s pretty much completely irrelevant to anything I’ve said. I agree. If that’s what I said, it would be nuts. What I actually said is that I don’t think there are circumstances in the real world that can result in the ridiculously high levels of negative behaviours. Sure there are circumstances that can lead to higher illegitimacy rates. What circumstances do you believe lead to a 70% illegitimacy rate? Sure there are circumstances that can lead to fathers abandoning their children. What circumstance do you believe is leading to 70% of black children being raised in homes without fathers? Its not the fact that illegitimacy and absentee fathers exist in the black community. Its the fact that they constitute 70% of the community. I have no doubt that things would start to improve within a few generations if we had illegitimacy rates below 10% and absentee fathers below 10%, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715/600 "2018-07-26T15:22:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Complicated issues are complicated. Dismiss anything you like. I’m just trying my best to explain my views on a very complicated set of issues. So you think we can dismiss racism as well because its complex. At least its a consistent position. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racialism-everyones-favorite-politics/817715.md?page=31)