# racism and self defense my ass...WI vs. Vang **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 19, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375 "2005-09-19T16:16:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/61 "2005-09-22T14:45:45Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Every claim of racism in that article, which was written before the testimony began, was from the defense attorney’s opening statement. The prosecutor did say that someone swore at Vang, but that’s all. The reports I’ve read of the actual testimony say that the hunters admitted using profanity, but not racist profanity. I don’t care if they called Vang a sawed off yellow commie gook pig fucking bastard etc etc etc… he had no right to kill them for it. “They hurt my feelings” is no defense for multiple murder. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/62 "2005-09-22T14:58:53Z")
A percentage of Hmong sportsmen in Minnesota and Wisconsin haven’t been endeering themselves to the locals. Complaints range from poaching, fishing over the limit, shining deer, and tresspass. And those are just the ones I’ve read in the paper. I suspect that that had something to do with how Vang was treated when caught. Minnesota and Wisconsin are making extra efforts to educate the Hmong population and employ Hmong conservation officers, but it has made only a little dent in their cultural approach to hunting and fishing. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/63 "2005-09-22T15:18:40Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > A percentage of Hmong sportsmen in Minnesota and Wisconsin haven’t been **endeering** themselves to the locals. Pun intended? ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/64 "2005-09-22T17:31:09Z")
> [@xbuckeye](#): > > Can you Google? [Still not true](http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/09/13_kelleherb_vang/) [link](http://www.ksax.com/KSTPTV/S10476.html) [link](http://www.startribune.com/stories/467/5612271.html) [link](http://www.cumberland-advocate.com/news/) [link](http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/breaking_news/12634339.htm) The first article says that one witness stated a victim used “a profanity tagged with Hmong”, whatever that means. I will concede that one. The others talk about the term “mud duck”, which means Minnesotan. ---
**Author:** ![xbuckeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9e8a1a/32.png) [@xbuckeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xbuckeye)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/65 "2005-09-22T18:56:42Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > The first article says that one witness stated a victim used “a profanity tagged with Hmong”, whatever that means. I will concede that one. The others talk about the term “mud duck”, which means Minnesotan. And FIBer means someone from Illinois, but it is still not nice whether you are making fun of their ethnic group or current mailing address. > [@Nurse Carmen](#): > > A percentage of Hmong sportsmen in Minnesota and Wisconsin haven’t been endeering themselves to the locals. Complaints range from poaching, fishing over the limit, shining deer, and tresspass. And those are just the ones I’ve read in the paper. I suspect that that had something to do with how Vang was treated when caught. Vang himself had an arrest warrant for a previous tresspassing incident when this incident occured and he was investigated for a few other unsloved deaths of hunters on private property in WI where people were shot dead while hunting on their own land. > [@SteveG1](#): > > I don’t care if they called Vang a sawed off yellow commie gook pig fucking bastard etc etc etc… he had no right to kill them for it. “They hurt my feelings” is no defense for multiple murder. A-freakin’-men. This is what all the people shouting racism forget to consider. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/66 "2005-09-22T19:12:47Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I don’t care if they called Vang a sawed off yellow commie gook pig fucking bastard etc etc etc… he had no right to kill them for it. “They hurt my feelings” is no defense for multiple murder. Are there any actual people claiming that the murders were justified because he was called names? There certainly aren’t any in this thread, and I haven’t seen any in the news accounts I have read, yet a number of people here are claiming it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/67 "2005-09-22T19:48:03Z")
> [@Lamar Mundane](#): > > Are there any actual people claiming that the murders were justified because he was called names? There certainly aren’t any in this thread, and I haven’t seen any in the news accounts I have read, yet a number of people here are claiming it. Nobody in the thread is justifying Vang. However it was part of his trial defense (saying someone deserved to die is not a very good defense in my book). They said bad things so I killed them. WTF [http://wcco.com/topstories/local\_story\_259115643.html](http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_259115643.html) > [@Top4News](#): > > (AP) Hayward, Wis. An immigrant truck driver cannot reasonably claim he was defending himself when he opened fire on a group of hunters, killing six, the prosecutor told jurors Friday. But the defense said the confrontation was all about racial prejudice. … > Lautenschlager detailed how each victim was shot and the damage each bullet did to their bodies. She reminded jurors Vang testified he felt two of the victims deserved to die because they called him names. … > Vang said the shootings happened after **one** of the white hunters used profanities and racial slurs when angrily confronting him for trespassing in a tree stand used to hunt deer last fall. > > Two survivors of the shootings testified that only one shot was fired at Vang, and that was after he had already shot the victims. > > Cross-examined by Lautenschlager, Vang was asked if each victim deserved to die. Vang answered “no” in some cases and “yes” in others. > . > > “The physical evidence and the witness statements speak for themselves,” Lautenschlager said. ---
**Author:** ![xbuckeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9e8a1a/32.png) [@xbuckeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xbuckeye)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/68 "2005-09-23T21:40:11Z")
> [@Lamar Mundane](#): > > Are there any actual people claiming that the murders were justified because he was called names? There certainly aren’t any in this thread, and I haven’t seen any in the news accounts I have read, yet a number of people here are claiming it. See the comments that his daughter and brother and uncle and a bunch of other people made. Daddy was sent to prison because all white people are racist…he had to shoot the bad racist white folks because they called him bad names and he was scared of the bad name-calling white racists. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/69 "2005-09-23T22:59:17Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > A percentage of Hmong sportsmen in Minnesota and Wisconsin haven’t been endeering themselves to the locals. Complaints range from poaching, fishing over the limit, shining deer, and tresspass. And those are just the ones I’ve read in the paper. I suspect that that had something to do with how Vang was treated when caught. “Shining deer?” What, is that like deer-spotting with a spotlight? Is that illegal in the area? (Forgive my hunting ignorance.) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/70 "2005-09-23T23:05:46Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > “Shining deer?” What, is that like deer-spotting with a spotlight? Is that illegal in the area? > > (Forgive my hunting ignorance.) Yes, shining deer is the same thing as what we used to call spotlighting or deer-spotting. It is not a very respected thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/71 "2005-09-23T23:07:06Z")
> [@xbuckeye](#): > > See the comments that his daughter and brother and uncle and a bunch of other people made. Daddy was sent to prison because all white people are racist…he had to shoot the bad racist white folks because they called him bad names and he was scared of the bad name-calling white racists. At the risk of sounding like a knee jerk racist hater, if they don’t like it here, they are free to leave any time they want to. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/72 "2005-09-23T23:30:30Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Yes, shining deer is the same thing as what we used to call spotlighting or deer-spotting. It is not a very respected thing to do. Thanks, I did that years ago with a friends at their camp. Didn’t do any hunting though. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/73 "2005-09-24T04:15:58Z")
A note: Spotlighting deer is one thing. Spotlighting deer, and THEN shooting them, that’s not respected. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/74 "2005-09-24T12:36:37Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > A note: Spotlighting deer is one thing. > Spotlighting deer, and THEN shooting them, that’s not respected. And according to [this website, by](http://www.mpm.edu/wirp/ICW-28.html) and large illegal: > [@](#): > > Deer were also hunted at night, when they came to the stream or lake for water and to eat the pads and stems of water lilies. For this, they used a jacklight: a torch or lantern set on a special wooden platform in the front of a canoe with a darkened backstop. Later, “shining deer” was later outlawed by the U.S. government except for Indians on federal reservations. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/75 "2005-09-24T15:05:34Z")
Well, yes, it’s illegal. It’s also immoral, a gross violation of the social contract of hunting ans a sport, and fattening. But just spotlighting the deer, that’s legal and mildly entertaining. Just don’t shoot them. Dynamiting fish and grenade fishing are also illegal, immoral, etcetera. Shooting fish, now, is only illegal here and there, and a heck of an odd thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/76 "2005-09-24T16:05:59Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > A note: Spotlighting deer is one thing. > Spotlighting deer, and THEN shooting them, that’s not respected. Ah, yeah, I see. Kinda like baiting by putting a salt lick right by a hunting area. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/77 "2005-09-24T16:11:24Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Shooting fish, now, is only illegal here and there, and a heck of an odd thing to do. It’s also hard on the barrells. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375/78 "2005-09-24T17:05:40Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Ah, yeah, I see. Kinda like baiting by putting a salt lick right by a hunting area. Just because some hunters do something, does not mean all hunters do it, or approve of it. Whether it is spotlighting, baiting with salt, etc. Different hunters have different ideas as to what is fair or what. I don’t want to start a derailment, so I won’t say any more than that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-self-defense-my-ass-wi-vs-vang/322375.md?page=3)