# Racism and "Wuhan virus" - only because Wuhan is a fairly well known large city? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2020, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807 "2020-03-19T15:29:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/221 "2020-03-23T18:00:12Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > There’s a big difference between setting new standards for disease naming and insisting that everyone retroactively change a name that’s been used for decades already. > Firstly, even if it’s feasible to change the scientific name, the popular name is extremely hard to reverse, hence “coronavirus” is still common even as we have a more accurate name. > Secondly it would mean possible confusion, as stacks of data, documents and references contain the old name, and it’s not just for Lyme disease, it would be for dozens of the most common diseases. I don’t want to make discussion and research of pathogens more annoying by everyone needing to learn a new vocabulary. No, there really isn’t. If Lyme disease was instead called “nigger disease”, do you honestly believe that it wouldn’t be changed. Consistency in terms is of paramount value when arguing about these things. My cite is this thread and a whole host of others where terms could not be agreed upon because someone wants to make up a new version of the word because they saw someone use it once. If it is RACIST now, it is still racist for the then terms. Consistency. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/222 "2020-03-23T18:06:52Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > I think everyone is familiar with the what, the why is what people are arguing about. > Why not name it after a region? > > Snowflakes? Because what difference does it make to know that Lyme Disease was first discovered in Lyme, CT? It doesn’t tell you anything about it (is it a virus? Bacteria? Parasite?), doesn’t tell you how it affects you, what the symptoms are, nothing. How does it help to call it Spanish Flu, when it came from the US? It’s also not just about not naming things after places, it’s also not naming things after who discovered them or after professions either. Fucking miners, bunch of fucking snowflakes. Amirite? Anyway, I just popped in to ask again, where are you people seeing all this Chinese propaganda? I only come across it when people here post about it. This thread is so much fun: OP: Why is it called Wuhan virus? Is it because Wuhan is a well-known large city? Everyone else: fights Me: Wuhan isn’t a well-known large city and almost no one is calling it Wuhan virus More fighting along the lines of, Trump did a racist thing because he scratched out corona virus and put Chinese virus in its place [editor’s note: not Wuhan virus, BTW]. Others: The CCP is bad, mmmkay? First group: oookay, but what Trump did was racist. Second group: You’re all a bunch of dupes for the CCP!! First group: ?? I also love the multiple takes of “why don’t we still name things after places?” followed by the 500th cite of the agreement that the US is part of that says, “we won’t name things after places”. I want to thank our Canadian brethren for making sure that the US president is just as racist as they want him to be. I wonder what Trudeau is calling it? OK, re-flouncing. I read this thread, get angry, and close it. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/223 "2020-03-23T18:10:39Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > No, there really isn’t. If Lyme disease was instead called “nigger disease”, do you honestly believe that it wouldn’t be changed. > > Consistency in terms is of paramount value when arguing about these things. My cite is this thread and a whole host of others where terms could not be agreed upon because someone wants to make up a new version of the word because they saw someone use it once. > > If it is RACIST now, it is still racist for the then terms. > > Consistency. That’s why it’s still called Lyme disease and the Ebola virus. We’re discussing a current disease, not an old, well-known one. Some things are in the past, but we’re living in the present, and moving inexorably towards a dystopian future where diseases will be known by the content of their character, not by the region near where they may have originated. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/224 "2020-03-23T18:15:20Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Why not name it after a region? Because it doesn’t convey any useful information, it tends to stigmatize locations and people who then suffer more consequences, it’s scientifically imprecise, and it leads to political bickering. And 5 years ago the WHO changed the naming conventions for these valid reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/225 "2020-03-23T18:20:28Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > No, there really isn’t. If Lyme disease was instead called “nigger disease”, do you honestly believe that it wouldn’t be changed. Yes it would be changed. I am not the one claiming historical consistency is a critical (or even most important) consideration. In reality there are a number of factors to consider. I just now gave reasons why changing the names of diseases is problematic – I am sure that WHO would have considered retroactively renaming diseases but rejected it as impractical and infeasible. Do you disagree? Meanwhile, while Lyme disease and Nigger disease both might be considered racist, if we define racist in the broadest way possible, the degree of offense caused, and so the importance of that factor is not the same. Has even one person ever been offended by Lyme disease? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/226 "2020-03-23T18:46:41Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > Consistency in terms is of paramount value when arguing about these things. My cite is this thread and a whole host of others where terms could not be agreed upon because someone wants to make up a new version of the word because they saw someone use it once. > > If it is RACIST now, it is still racist for the then terms. > > Consistency. The consistency we should apply is calling diseases by the names experts give them. When people start changing scientific terms for blatantly political reasons, if you actually care about consistency, you would have a huge problem. Instead, it’s pretty clear that the Fox News viewers among us agree with the political reasons to rename things to make the Cheeto in Chief happy, and thus we have this argument. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/227 "2020-03-23T19:56:04Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Because it doesn’t convey any useful information, it tends to stigmatize locations and people who then suffer more consequences, it’s scientifically imprecise, and it leads to political bickering. And 5 years ago the WHO changed the naming conventions for these valid reasons. The point being argued is that the CCP propaganda machine was something Trump was trying to fight against. His label of the virus as the Chinese virus was absolutely inflammatory and uncalled for, however it was originally named the Wuhan Virus, until WHO got wind evidently. My point is simple, if something is racist NOW, then the same word(s) should be racist in retrospect, if it is still present and prevalent. Also, I laugh at the “stigmatizes the region for which it was named”. EXACTLY for that reason do I think it’s a bullshit reason. No one in Lyme, is “stigmatized”, not one single person. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/228 "2020-03-23T20:28:13Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > I think everyone is familiar with the what, the why is what people are arguing about. > Why not name it after a region? > > Snowflakes? I’m trying to grasp the direction or relevance, if any, of your query. Is it your claim that China anticipated a 2019 virus, and therefore coerced the WHO to adopt this rule in 2015? Suppose there is a new Coronavirus in 2021, and epidemiologists are able to trace its provenance back to sharts emerging from the anus of one Donald J. Trump. To be consistent, will you advocate that that virus be called the “Trump virus” rather than “Covid-21”? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/229 "2020-03-23T21:07:15Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > The point being argued is that the CCP propaganda machine was something Trump was trying to fight against. His label of the virus as the Chinese virus was absolutely inflammatory and uncalled for, however it was originally named the Wuhan Virus, until WHO got wind evidently. > > My point is simple, if something is racist NOW, then the same word(s) should be racist in retrospect, if it is still present and prevalent. > > Also, I laugh at the “stigmatizes the region for which it was named”. EXACTLY for that reason do I think it’s a bullshit reason. > No one in Lyme, is “stigmatized”, not one single person. :dubious: [http://thenationshealth.aphapublications.org/content/45/6/1.1](http://thenationshealth.aphapublications.org/content/45/6/1.1) > [@](#): > > In Old Lyme, Connecticut, John Sieviec, MSRS, chief sanitarian at the Old Lyme Health Department, has been diagnosed more than once with the tick-borne disease that was named after his community after a rash of cases were identified in the 1970s. Sieviec said there is a lingering stigma that visitors to Old Lyme will get sick with Lyme disease. But he noted it can be tricky to educate people about Lyme disease prevention without perpetuating misperceptions about his community. > > “It’s a difficult balance,” he said. “But it’s something that’s always with us.” ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/230 "2020-03-23T21:07:55Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > The point being argued is that the CCP propaganda machine was something Trump was trying to fight against. His label of the virus as the Chinese virus was absolutely inflammatory and uncalled for, however it was originally named the Wuhan Virus, until WHO got wind evidently. > > My point is simple, if something is racist NOW, then the same word(s) should be racist in retrospect, if it is still present and prevalent. > > Also, I laugh at the “stigmatizes the region for which it was named”. EXACTLY for that reason do I think it’s a bullshit reason. [It’s not just about _a region_.](https://cnycentral.com/news/local/new-york-ag-launches-hate-crime-hotline-amid-rise-in-assaults-against-asian-americans) ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/231 "2020-03-23T21:22:48Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …can you explain to me what this has to do with the subject of the OP? > > Do the alleged actions of Tedros and/or WHO make Trumps comments any less of a racist dogwhistle? Trump calling SARS-2 (or whatever) ‘the Chinese virus’ is not a racist dogwhistle at all. He refers to China, not ‘people who are Chinese or of Chinese descent’. I was trying to provide context. Some weeks ago, the official PRC news agencies called it the Wuhan virus. Based on the location. This and all of the above should put Trump’s words in perspective. If you are not convinced, then we disagree. Keep safe down there! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/232 "2020-03-23T21:39:38Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > Trump calling SARS-2 (or whatever) ‘the Chinese virus’ is not a racist dogwhistle at all. Try telling that to the Asian-Americans who are experiencing an uptick in physical and verbal attacks (see above link). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/233 "2020-03-23T23:11:51Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Try telling that to the Asian-Americans who are experiencing an uptick in physical and verbal attacks (see above link). Try telling that to Asians who verbally attacked the United States and accused it of deliberate mass murder. See how that works? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/234 "2020-03-23T23:25:02Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > … however it was originally named the Wuhan Virus, until WHO got wind evidently. [Here](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/health/china-pneumonia-outbreak-virus.html) is a news article from January 8 in which Chinese researchers called it a new coronavirus. [Here](https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200121-sitrep-1-2019-ncov.pdf?sfvrsn=20a99c10_4) is the first WHO report of the “novel coronavirus.” Your assertion is bullshit. > [@](#): > > No one in Lyme, is “stigmatized”, not one single person. White people tend not to stigmatize white people. For example, how many white schoolkids get harassed for being the cause of Lyme disease? Zero. This has never happened. Chinese-American kids being accused of eating bats? Oh for sure. The bubble of white privilege is blinding. ETA: Hey Trump supporting consistency hobgoblins: was it really the Spanish flu? That’s a good name for it, you suppose? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/235 "2020-03-23T23:29:02Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Try telling that to Asians who verbally attacked the United States and accused it of deliberate mass murder. > > See how that works? And as it usually ends up working when Trump’s stupid ignorant attempts to attack others end up attacking not only his alleged targets but the innocent, the Cheeto in chief ends up tossing defenders like you under the bus: > **[Donald Trump finally stops referring to coronavirus as 'the Chinese Virus'](https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/23/donald-trump-finally-stops-referring-coronavirus-chinese-virus-12445844/)** > > Donald Trump has stopped referring to coronavirus as 'the Chinese virus' after an upswing in racist attacks on Asian American people. Addressing a press conference on Monday evening, Trump repeatedly referred to Covid-19 as 'the virus,' having spent... > [@](#): > > Donald Trump finally stops referring to coronavirus as ‘the Chinese Virus’ > [@](#): > > Trump began Monday’s press conference by re-reading tweets he sent on Monday afternoon, saying: ‘It is very important that we totally protect our Asian American community in the United States, and all around the world. ‘They are amazing people, and the spreading of the Virus is NOT their fault in any way, shape, or form. They are working closely with us to get rid of it. WE WILL PREVAIL TOGETHER!’ > > Trump went on to use ‘the virus’ repeatedly during an almost 15-minute long speech, hours after California Governor Gavin Newsom said there had been a sharp upswing in attacks on Asian Americans in his state. > > President Trump altered his language hours after California Governor Gavin Newsom announced an upswing in attacks on Asian Americans (Picture: AP) At one point, he appeared on the verge of using his old preferred term, saying ‘148 countries are infected by…,’ then completing his sentence with the phrase ‘the invisible scourge’ after a deep breath. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/236 "2020-03-23T23:58:11Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And as it usually ends up working when Trump’s stupid ignorant attempts to attack others end up attacking not only his alleged targets but the innocent, the Cheeto in chief ends up tossing defenders like you under the bus: > > [Donald Trump finally stops referring to coronavirus as 'the Chinese Virus' | Metro News](https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/23/donald-trump-finally-stops-referring-coronavirus-chinese-virus-12445844/) Trump responded to CHINA accusing the US of mass murder when in fact it was CHINA’s fault the virus spread as a result of them keeping it quiet. So, in response to someone shilling for mass murderers, you’re welcome to your opinion as is the horse that opinion rode in on. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/237 "2020-03-24T00:18:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Trump responded to CHINA accusing the US of mass murder when in fact it was CHINA’s fault the virus spread as a result of them keeping it quiet. As mentioned, there were more direct ways to do that than the stupid way Trump choose early. > [@Magiver](#): > > So, in response to someone shilling for mass murderers, you’re welcome to your opinion as is the horse that opinion rode in on. You also keep using that straw man, I do not think it shows what you think it shows. 🙂 Better learn from Trump then regarding the proper naming conventions, or ignore what he is saying, it will help you too. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/238 "2020-03-24T00:24:44Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > Trump calling SARS-2 (or whatever) ‘the Chinese virus’ is not a racist dogwhistle at all. > > He refers to China, not ‘people who are Chinese or of Chinese descent’. > > I was trying to provide context. Some weeks ago, the official PRC news agencies called it the Wuhan virus. Based on the location. This and all of the above should put Trump’s words in perspective. > > If you are not convinced, then we disagree. Keep safe down there! Of course he’s not convinced, because the argument makes no sense. China and Trump are distinct entities. Why would looking at why China does something tell us why Trump does something? It’s a complete non sequitur. What you have to look at it is why Trump would say “Chinese virus.” Why would he, the president of the United States with a personal grudge against China, rename a virus with an existing name? Why would a president with a history of blaming non-Americans for things deliberately ignore the CDC and WHO and call it after the country? People don’t just change the names of things for no reason–the name change is about putting forth a different narrative. Then there is his past history. This is the guy who attacks Mexican immigrants as being “rapists and drug dealers.” He’s the one who attacks all Muslims, rather than just ISIS. He’s the guy who had his apartments not allow black people. He’s the guy who has admitted that he thinks he has superior genes. He’s the guy who was okay with putting children in cages because they weren’t Americans. He’s the guy who turned refugees into some sort of attack on our country. The default, the null hypothesis for someone with that history is not to assume that “Well, this time, he’s not being racist.” When you see all that smoke, you don’t ignore the fire. When both past history and current stated beliefs line up with racism, you don’t ignore that. This happens a lot with talks about racism. Unless you can prove racism beyond a shadow of a doubt, it gets ignored. That is a problem that extends beyond this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/239 "2020-03-24T02:15:17Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And as it usually ends up working when Trump’s stupid ignorant attempts to attack others end up attacking not only his alleged targets but the innocent, the Cheeto in chief ends up tossing defenders like you under the bus: > > [Donald Trump finally stops referring to coronavirus as 'the Chinese Virus' | Metro News](https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/23/donald-trump-finally-stops-referring-coronavirus-chinese-virus-12445844/) More from [the BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52013361): > [@](#): > > Asked by a reporter why he had spoken out, Mr Trump said: "It seems that there could be a little bit of nasty language toward the Asian Americans in our country and I don’t like that at all. No _SHIT._ ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/240 "2020-03-24T02:42:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As mentioned, there were more direct ways to do that than the stupid way Trump choose early. Yes, not announcing to the world that your screw-up was a deliberate act of war committed by another country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807.md?page=13)