# Racism and "Wuhan virus" - only because Wuhan is a fairly well known large city? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2020, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807 "2020-03-19T15:29:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/241 "2020-03-24T03:37:15Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Of course he’s not convinced, because the argument makes no sense. China and Trump are distinct entities. Why would looking at why China does something tell us why Trump does something? It’s a complete non sequitur. > > What you have to look at it is why Trump would say “Chinese virus.” Why would he, the president of the United States with a personal grudge against China, rename a virus with an existing name? Why would a president with a history of blaming non-Americans for things deliberately ignore the CDC and WHO and call it after the country? People don’t just change the names of things for no reason–the name change is about putting forth a different narrative. > > Then there is his past history. This is the guy who attacks Mexican immigrants as being “rapists and drug dealers.” He’s the one who attacks all Muslims, rather than just ISIS. He’s the guy who had his apartments not allow black people. He’s the guy who has admitted that he thinks he has superior genes. He’s the guy who was okay with putting children in cages because they weren’t Americans. He’s the guy who turned refugees into some sort of attack on our country. > > The default, the null hypothesis for someone with that history is not to assume that “Well, this time, he’s not being racist.” When you see all that smoke, you don’t ignore the fire. When both past history and current stated beliefs line up with racism, you don’t ignore that. > > This happens a lot with talks about racism. Unless you can prove racism beyond a shadow of a doubt, it gets ignored. That is a problem that extends beyond this discussion. The default, from a position of intellectual honesty, is to asses all the facts of a situation, not just the ones that fit your own biases. What you are doing is to deliberately strip a situation of context so you can derive your conclusions from a set of preconceived notions instead. Of course the problem is compounded by the likelihood of your preconceived notions being the result of previous iterations of the same process. Just so you know, willful ignorance plus prejudice is the bread and butter of racists too; so your approach is flawed both from an analytical usefulness point of view as well as from the moral one. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/242 "2020-03-24T04:34:27Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > it was originally named the Wuhan Virus, until WHO got wind evidently. Again, no. The popular name for this virus is “coronavirus”. The formal name was not settled for a while, but was never “Wuhan virus”. > [@](#): > > No one in Lyme, is “stigmatized”, not one single person. What’s the logic here? You think people in the Ebola region must necessarily not feel stigma because people in Lyme don’t? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/243 "2020-03-24T04:42:02Z")
> [@sps49sd](#): > > Trump calling SARS-2 (or whatever) ‘the Chinese virus’ is not a racist dogwhistle at all. > [@Skywatcher](#): > > Try telling that to the Asian-Americans who are experiencing an uptick in physical and verbal attacks (see above link). > [@Magiver](#): > > Try telling that to Asians who verbally attacked the United States and accused it of deliberate mass murder. **Magiver** ’s response here ought to win some kind of logic prize. A fuckdumb conspiracy theory in China means it’s OK for the president to use racist dogwhistles and for abuse of the asian american community to happen. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/244 "2020-03-24T06:18:31Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > **Magiver** ’s response here ought to win some kind of logic prize. > > A fuckdumb conspiracy theory in China means it’s OK for the president to use racist dogwhistles and for abuse of the asian american community to happen. But they _verbally attacked_ the US! Where’s your perspective?! ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/245 "2020-03-24T07:15:15Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > **Magiver** ’s response here ought to win some kind of logic prize. > > A fuckdumb conspiracy theory in China means it’s OK for the president to use racist dogwhistles and for abuse of the asian american community to happen. That conspiracy theory is causing damage already, I posted this before: [DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — Iran’s supreme leader refused U.S. assistance Sunday to fight the new coronavirus, citing an unfounded conspiracy theory claiming the virus could be man-made by America. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei’s comments come as Iran faces crushing U.S. sanctions blocking the country from selling its crude oil and accessing international financial markets. But while Iranian civilian officials in recent days have increasingly criticized those sanctions, 80-year-old Khamenei instead chose to traffic in the same conspiracy theory increasingly used by Chinese officials about the new virus to deflect blame for the pandemic.]([Iran leader refuses US help, citing virus conspiracy theory | AP News](https://apnews.com/2cffa4c49cbf085562a71cd36a4e4378)) How do you propose to push back against the Chinese government claims that the virus didn’t originate in China without pointing out that the virus did in fact originate in China? China’s spokesman for the Foreign Ministry is still peddling the idea the virus came from the US and it was covered up: [Lijian Zhao 赵立坚 @zlj517 US CDC admitted some #COVID19 patients were misdiagnosed as flu during 2019 flu season. 34 million infected & 20000 died. If #COVID19 began last September, & US has been lack of testing ability, how many would have been infected? US should find out when patient zero appeared.](https://twitter.com/zlj517/status/1241723635964039168) [the lizard king @mamaxbea I figured out why everyone is so angry at me today. A spokesperson from The Chinese Foreign Ministry (?) RT’d my shower thoughts on COVID-19. Lmfao FOR THE RECORD, AGAIN, literally nothing I said had any scientific merit. Pls stop taking it seriously and pls stop yelling at me.](https://twitter.com/mamaxbea/status/1241913951643791366) That would had been [this retweet by Zhao](https://twitter.com/zlj517/status/1241611441586700288) of a thread with thousands of people buying into the conspiracy theory. Reading through those conversations [obvious](https://twitter.com/Zhaofan56188688) [pro-China](https://twitter.com/carmen22807256), [pro CT propaganda accounts](https://twitter.com/roseliu64212002) are everywhere, rather easy to spot too, join in dates starting in February, account names using a name plus a string of random numbers or just random numbers and characters. And it’s not just the US being targeted, now Italy is being thrown under suspicion: [Global Times @globaltimesnews #Italy may have had an unexplained strain of pneumonia as early as November and December 2019 with highly suspected symptoms of #COVID19, reports said.](https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/1241559268190343168) There is a propaganda operation at work, how do you propose to address that? Because it’s already having negative effects and the longer it goes on, among other things, it will create more antagonism against China, Chinese people and Asians in general. And that IMO serves the CCP’s goals just fine. If you read the responses to Zhao’s and Global Times, don’t you think the people getting angry wouldn’t react like that regardless of what Trump says? Because a sure way of getting people mad as hell is to do something against them , then accuse them of being guilty of the thing just done against them _and_ play the victim on top of everything. Trump could spontaneously quantum tunnel into the Sun’s core tomorrow and the CCP actions would still be instigating a backlash of anger and resentment, turning a blind eye to it will only exacerbate the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/246 "2020-03-24T08:31:49Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > That conspiracy theory is causing damage already, I posted this before: Conspiracy theories are absolutely rife in the modern world and always cause damage. I’ve ranted about it plenty of times before. Any major event now is encircled by countless nonsense CTs, many of which don’t even make logical sense and yet do indeed influence governments and social behaviour. Covid has plenty of conspiracy theories, readily debunked. The “America origin” is just one of them. One difference of course is the Chinese foreign minister giving JAQ-style support of this CT. He’s an idiot and should probably be fired. In terms of what the US can do, my advice is: 1. Reject the CT and pressure the Chinese government to do the same with old-fashioned diplomacy 2. How about not pushing silly conspiracy theories yourself? 3. How about not trying to rename a virus to deflect criticism and stoke up further bigotry? > [@](#): > > How do you propose to push back against the Chinese government claims that the virus didn’t originate in China without pointing out that the virus did in fact originate in China? Point it out by all means, but don’t try to rename a virus, that’s being silly. > [@](#): > > That would had been [this retweet by Zhao](https://twitter.com/zlj517/status/1241611441586700288) of a thread with thousands of people buying into the conspiracy theory. Thousands in a population of 1.3 billion. How many likes and retweets does Trump typically get, even when he’s saying something demonstrably false? I live in China; I’ve yet to meet one person who takes the America-origin theory seriously, and in most cases I don’t think people have even heard of it. I didn’t come across it on Chinese social media and the news, I heard it first on Western news, then had to search for references to it in Chinese media. The narrative that “The Chinese[sup]TM[/sup] believe America planted this virus” is a gross mischaracterization. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/247 "2020-03-26T00:29:43Z")
After trump has dropped it, [Mike Pompeo still is trying to throw “Wuhan virus” on the wall](https://news.yahoo.com/pompeo-says-g7-agrees-china-spreading-virus-disinformation-164946927.html). From the article it sounds like the G7 were having none of it: "The German magazine Der Spiegel, quoting anonymous diplomats, said that the joint statement was scuttled by Pompeo’s insistence that it use the term “Wuhan virus” – a formulation frowned upon by medical professionals who say it is stigmatizing. Pompeo did not deny the report when asked about it, saying that each minister would speak separately but that they had a “common understanding” on the health and economic crisis caused by the “Wuhan virus.”" ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/248 "2020-03-26T04:53:39Z")
Just send all Caucasians back to Caucasia and be done with it. But beware verbally-spread Caucasian cooties. The White House is only one hotspot. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/249 "2020-03-26T13:17:53Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > A fuckdumb conspiracy theory in China means it’s OK for the president to use racist dogwhistles and for abuse of the asian american community to happen. It’s a Representative of the Chinese government accusing the US of mass murder. It’s a big fucking deal to do this. It’s massively arrogant to do it when the spread of the virus was the fault of the Chinese government. I’m glad we have a president who stands up to politically bullies. I’d suggest you write a letter to the editor and verbally blast your government but you would assuredly lose points on your citizenship rating. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/250 "2020-03-26T13:50:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s a Representative of the Chinese government accusing the US of mass murder. > > It’s a big fucking deal to do this. It’s massively arrogant to do it when the spread of the virus was the fault of the Chinese government. I’m glad we have a president who stands up to politically bullies. > > I’d suggest you write a letter to the editor and verbally blast your government but you would assuredly lose points on your citizenship rating. A foreign minister supported a fuckdumb CT. Meanwhile the US _president_ often supports such CTs such as e.g. Global warming is a Chinese hoax. But I am not the one saying two fuckdumbs makes a right. I have denounced what Lijian Zhao is doing. Why can you not do the same about Trump? ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/251 "2020-03-26T14:03:06Z")
I can totally see the point of not wanting to “taint” a locale with the association of a virus. I think that should probably stop. I don’t think it’s necessarily racist however. It could be used that way, but so could a lot of things. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/252 "2020-03-26T14:06:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s massively arrogant to do it when the spread of the virus was the fault of the Chinese government. I’m glad we have a president who stands up to politically bullies. Oh wait, I thought the virus was OBAMA’S fault! Sure seems to me that both China and Trump started in the same place: denial and coverup. China has moved on to public health responses, while Trump is stuck in denial and blame game. Oh wait, is Mike Pence still trying to pray this all away? Pro tip for you: if you’re trying to defend Trump’s incompetence, don’t raise the issue of arrogance. As soon as you mention it, your point totally backfires, as though the baboon of a President has a shred of humility or sense in him. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/253 "2020-03-26T14:08:14Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s massively arrogant to do it when the spread of the virus was the fault of the Chinese government. The spread in the US is partially the fault of the president, who dismantled the National Security pandemic team, who spread false rumors that worries about the virus were a “Democratic hoax”, and who failed to take it seriously and take action within the country until long after he should have based on public knowledge and expert recommendations. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2020, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/254 "2020-03-26T21:17:45Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Oh wait, I thought the virus was OBAMA’S fault! Typical to create a straw man to attack someone. That’s a clear sign that you can’t refute an argument and therefore create another argument in which to do so. The United States of America was accused of mass murder by a country who actually committed the act. That’s bullshit and you know it’s bullshit. Yet here you are whining about the verbal pusb-back on such a monstrous accusation. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2020, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/255 "2020-03-27T02:02:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Typical to create a straw man to attack someone. That’s a clear sign that you can’t refute an argument and therefore create another argument in which to do so. > > The United States of America was accused of mass murder by a country who actually committed the act. > > That’s bullshit and you know it’s bullshit. Yet here you are whining about the verbal pusb-back on such a monstrous accusation. Jesus H Christ, this is not a bio weapon attack unleashed by the Chinese on America. Talk about a conspiracy theory. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2020, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/256 "2020-03-27T02:29:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Typical to create a straw man to attack someone. Perhaps you missed this news, in which the Dear Leader of the 42% blamed Obama: [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/03/13/coronavirus-trump-says-i-dont-take-responsibility-at-all-for-lack-of-tests.html](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/03/13/coronavirus-trump-says-i-dont-take-responsibility-at-all-for-lack-of-tests.html) > [@](#): > > That’s bullshit and you know it’s bullshit. Yet here you are whining about the verbal pusb-back on such a monstrous accusation. I’m more concerned about Trump’s stunning incompetence which will clearly lead to thousands, tens of thousand, maybe hundreds of thousands of deaths compared to what would probably happen under any other functioning adult had he/she been elected. But sure, you can get all bent out of shape about Chinese propaganda. Maybe there should be a trigger warning on each issue of China Daily? Would that help? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2020, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/257 "2020-03-27T04:19:00Z")
Hell, the only Chinese propaganda I’ve seen anywhere has been _in this thread_ from the people who are champing at the bit to blame anyone but Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2020, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/258 "2020-03-27T05:20:15Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Typical to create a straw man to attack someone. That’s a clear sign that you can’t refute an argument and therefore create another argument in which to do so. > […] > Yet here you are whining about the verbal pusb-back on such a monstrous accusation. Any response to my last post yet? I have repeatedly denounced the Chinese minister for supporting a dumb conspiracy theory, and suggested he should be fired. You seem incapable of doing anything like this with Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/259 "2020-03-27T14:19:28Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Hell, the only Chinese propaganda I’ve seen anywhere has been _in this thread_ from the people who are champing at the bit to blame anyone but Trump. To be fair, it’s also in \*\* SmartAleq\*\*'s link [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=22190607). ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807/260 "2020-03-27T21:21:26Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > After trump has dropped it, [Mike Pompeo still is trying to throw “Wuhan virus” on the wall](https://news.yahoo.com/pompeo-says-g7-agrees-china-spreading-virus-disinformation-164946927.html). From the article it sounds like the G7 were having none of it: > > "The German magazine Der Spiegel, quoting anonymous diplomats, said that the joint statement was scuttled by Pompeo’s insistence that it use the term “Wuhan virus” – a formulation frowned upon by medical professionals who say it is stigmatizing. > > Pompeo did not deny the report when asked about it, saying that each minister would speak separately but that they had a “common understanding” on the health and economic crisis caused by the “Wuhan virus.”" Since the 1918 “Spanish” Flu originated in his home state, perhaps we should start calling it the “Kansas Pig-fuckers Flu” in his honor… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-and-wuhan-virus-only-because-wuhan-is-a-fairly-well-known-large-city/849807.md?page=14)