# Racism denial getting ridiculous **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 26, 2011, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412 "2011-12-26T11:43:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/21 "2011-12-27T02:41:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m still waiting to learn what a “Nunga” is. [Nunga](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nunga) (Especially definitions 2 and 5 in this context, although I do not necessarily believe the etymology at 5, (or any of the others).) ---
**Author:** ![Dennis\_Arthur\_PERRETT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3e96dc/32.png) [@Dennis\_Arthur\_PERRETT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dennis_Arthur_PERRETT)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/22 "2011-12-27T02:42:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m still waiting to learn what a “Nunga” is. Nunga is a localized South Australian term for an Aboriginal person in general. I am led to believe its not offensive _crossed fingers_ and would rather the term to be used over and above Aboriginal. Believe it or not there are/were over 500 distinct Aboriginal groups each with their own customs and dialect. I must stop out of respect at this point as it is not my place to explain any more than a basic outline. However, I can say, we (the European descendants) use Nunga in South Australia, Kuarna (pronounced Garrner) in and around Adelaide, Murries in Queensland, New South Wales and Victoria, and Nyoongars over in West Australia. If any other Aussie can correct me please feel free to do so, ie I’m no Professor. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/23 "2011-12-27T03:43:15Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > What irks me are people who qualify their statements about racism with something like: > > “Although most people are not racist…” > “Although racial discrimination is not a big deal anymore…” > “Although racism is going the way of the dodo bird…” I always start to roll my eyes whenever someone says, “I know it’s not politically correct to say but…” > [@](#): > > What gets me is that many people–including Dopers–have at least one anecdote from recent years of someone being a big racist around them. But if a black person makes the mere suggestion that racism has affected their lives, they are interrogated endlessly, as if no one alive today remembers that codified segregation, KKK rallies, openly bigoted politicians, or even racist Tom and Jerry cartoons ever existed. Agreed, it’s comparable to the number of straight men I hear claiming they’ve been sexually harassed by gays or been falsely accused of rape by women. I also think it’s funny how many people whine that it’s impossible for them to have “honest” discussions about race and how they get “shut down” as they try and peddle the same Eugenics theories that have been discredited for almost a century. If there really is some sort of PC thought police out there they seem to be doing a really lousy job. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/24 "2011-12-27T04:10:07Z")
> [@janeslogin](#): > > Every time the TV shows that Mitch McConnell - U.S. Senate saying that the goal is to defeat Obama I am taken back to my youth in Kentucky and I hear and see him say, not “defeat Obama” but rather “defeat the colored boy”. A few news commentators are beginning to get away from denying the racism in Washington politics but not many. Is it too much to ask that you judge people on what they actually say and not on what you imagine they would like to say? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@The\_Man\_In\_Black](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Man_In_Black)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/25 "2011-12-27T04:21:44Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > I remember many years ago having to expel an Afro Caribbeann from a cinema, his first words were “You’re doing this because I’m black”. > > My reply was “No I’m doing this because you didn’t bother purchasing a ticket”. That made me laugh. A few months ago we had to throw a person out of the restaurant I work at and have him arrested (he happened to be black). Back story, it is a truck stop, and there is a gate to the truck parking lot and a $10 charge, that you are given a $10 voucher for to use in the restaurant. When the cop came to arrest him, the guy started yelling, “Why don;t you like black people here?” The cop yelled back at him, “It’s not that your black, its that you drove through the gate (actually through the gate, breaking it) and told the guy in the shack that you will fucking kill him if he tries to take his money.” I love idiots. They make my days fun. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/26 "2011-12-27T04:38:11Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > People–including Dopers–have at least one anecdote from recent years of someone being a big racist around them. But if a black person makes the mere suggestion that racism has affected their lives, they are interrogated endlessly, These are two different things, though. It’s one thing to accept a single incidence of racism. It’s another to accept that racism is so common that it affects your entire life. I’m not saying the latter is untrue, just that it’s different. Most white people, in my experience, rarely encounter someone being a racist. For example, I live in the whitest town you’ve ever seen. I grew up thinking no one was really racist anymore. Then I had a friend move in who had a black father, and said father got run out of town. And when I mentioned it to people from elsewhere in the state, they weren’t surprised at all. I held on to the idea that no one was antisemitic anymore for even longer. ---
**Author:** ![Dennis\_Arthur\_PERRETT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3e96dc/32.png) [@Dennis\_Arthur\_PERRETT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dennis_Arthur_PERRETT)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/27 "2011-12-27T05:55:03Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Just to give you a heads up – “Japs” is also considered offensive, so you probably don’t want to go there. 😉 Well maybe I will just shut my mouth. Cheers, no harm done nor intended. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/28 "2011-12-27T06:02:02Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Anyone else noticed this trend to basically deny racism exists, ever existed, and if you have an anecdote you can save it because its obviously an attention getting lie. Not only have I not noticed any such trend, I would appreciate, very much, if you could provide evidence that this is actually happening. It sounds as though you have had a couple of experiences of people denying that racism is ongoing and have extrapolated a “trend” from your limited experiences. That there are people who deny that racism continues in the U.S., today, is true. A small number of them even post on this board. That there are even a few people who might claim that racism was never a problem in the U.S. seems unlikely. Since this thread has been moved to Great Debates, it would seem prudent to provide evidence that there is actually a trend and not simply a couple of instances that have led you to to fall into a trap of confirmation bias. If no such evidence is presented, I will probably nudge this over to the In My Humble Opinion forum. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![BeaMyra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@BeaMyra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeaMyra)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/29 "2011-12-27T08:57:41Z")
Racism has gotten a lot more subtle than before. And people are looking for ways to expose that. Here’s an example, Our company had two distribution warehouses, one in Chicago and one in West Virginia. We needed to close one. This is a no brainer as Chicago is highly unionized and very costly, as opposed to a West Virginia town. Actually it’s not that far from Pittsburgh. I am in H/R and got a lot of complaints from African Americans, that the company was racist for doing so. No it was strictly about money. We even offered everyone in Chicago a chance to go to West Virginia. Only about 20 people did. All white. The African Americans explained that the company knows well that African Americans can’t live in West Virginia as it’s a southern state and a small town wouldn’t accept them. Thus we were racist. Maybe they have a point, I don’t know. The result could’ve been racism applied but the trigger was solely money. And as I pointed out, they would keep their same pay rate. So $20 an hour in West Virginia is going to go a lot father than $20 in Chicago. Or in any case unemployment. The fact that other minorities and white people were also out of a job made no different. Many people honestly felt it was racism that motivated the move. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/30 "2011-12-27T09:07:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No. Do you have an evidence that this is a trend, or are relying on anecdotes? Talking to people online and off, mostly Americans as well. They are VERY, VERY sensitive about racism to the point true nonsense can become a controversy like “blackholes” (yes its foxnews but it was widely reported with video evidence) [http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/11/naacp-urges-hallmark-pull-racist-card-shelves/](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/11/naacp-urges-hallmark-pull-racist-card-shelves/) > **[Science | Fox News](https://www.foxnews.com/science)** > > Biology, astronomy, chemistry, physics on FoxNews.com. In-depth natural science news. Headlines from the worlds of biology, astronomy, chemistry and physics. But try to explain the historical context of casual racism in old lit and people jump on you saying NO racism was not widespread at the time! :smack: I’m a USA citizen and I don’t understand it, granted countries where it isn’t such a big deal things can quickly go over the cliff because no one wants to be the party pooper. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/31 "2011-12-27T12:39:51Z")
Has anyone else noticed the racist mindset that only White people are, or can be, racist ? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/32 "2011-12-27T14:48:01Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Do you have an evidence that this is a trend, or are relying on anecdotes? > > > [@grude](#): > > > > Talking to people online and off, mostly Americans as well. They are VERY, VERY sensitive about racism to the point true nonsense can become a controversy like “blackholes” (yes its foxnews but it was widely reported with video evidence) > > > > [http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/11/naacp-urges-hallmark-pull-racist-card-shelves/](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/11/naacp-urges-hallmark-pull-racist-card-shelves/) > > > > [The Latest Science News Today | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380143,00.html) > > > > But try to explain the historical context of casual racism in old lit and people jump on you saying NO racism was not widespread at the time! :smack: > > > > I’m a USA citizen and I don’t understand it, granted countries where it isn’t such a big deal things can quickly go over the cliff because no one wants to be the party pooper. So, the answer is: No, you don’t have any statistics, just anecdotes. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/33 "2011-12-27T15:31:27Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Has anyone else noticed the racist mindset that only White people are, or can be, racist ? Yes. It’s a big part of the problem. Racism is based on a belief in races. If you think there are human races, you are a racist. The common concepts that racism is only about hatred or something to do with majority/minority populations simply exacerbates the problem, no matter who you are. The first step to developing hatred of others is to seperate people into us and them. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/34 "2011-12-27T15:41:39Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Has anyone else noticed the racist mindset that only White people are, or can be, racist ? Many East Asians are very openly racist. But there aren’t so many of them in the US, and they’re not the most visibly and historically racist in the country. Low hanging fruit, first. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/35 "2011-12-27T15:42:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, the answer is: No, you don’t have any statistics, just anecdotes. To support a point that something _exists_, that’s sufficient. There has always been a problem in that racists often deny their racism even to themselves. “Of \*course \*the Negroes should have equal rights, but we’re just not \*ready \*for it yet”, “I have no problem with Mexicans moving into the neighborhood, but I’m really worried about property values” and so forth. Hell yes, racism is still with us. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/36 "2011-12-27T15:46:09Z")
That mindset doesn’t exist. There is a mindset in which only white people are capable of certain _types_ of racism, which is not unreasonable (at least in the context of majority-white countries). Good luck finding anyone who will tell you that the Japanese aren’t incredibly racist, though. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/37 "2011-12-27T16:11:40Z")
> [@BeaMyra](#): > > Racism has gotten a lot more subtle than before. And people are looking for ways to expose that. It’s not just that it’s “subtle” or “hidden” - there is less of it. There is less racism in the United States now than there ever has been. The “hidden racism” theory is a conspiracy theory, like a creationist claiming that fossils aren’t really millions of years old, God just made them look that way. “Hidden racism” claims come from the guilty-until-proven-innocent mindset displayed by **janeslogin** or people like Joe McCarthy. It is a fallacious mindset. We don’t need to prove alien spacecraft have never visited Earth in order to justify assuming that they haven’t. A more reasonable conclusion is that because there is less overt racism, there is probably less covert racism as well. Besides, if it’s hidden, then who cares? Racism is about how people treat each other, not about their inner thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/38 "2011-12-27T16:51:24Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > A more reasonable conclusion is that because there is less overt racism, there is probably less covert racism as well. Besides, if it’s hidden, then who cares? Racism is about how people treat each other, not about their inner thoughts. Sure, there’s definitely less overall racism in the US than ever before. But that’s not the standard we set and certainly doesn’t match our expectations. Basically, that’s not good enough. And if it’s hidden, it finds a way to get out. Maybe in subtle, sneaky ways, but it gets out. If you think you can stand eternal watch over your very thoughts to the point they are never expressed externally, you’re doing better the rest of humanity and are like unto a god. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/39 "2011-12-27T17:27:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That mindset doesn’t exist. There is a mindset in which only white people are capable of certain _types_ of racism, which is not unreasonable (at least in the context of majority-white countries). > > Good luck finding anyone who will tell you that the Japanese aren’t incredibly racist, though. I have noticed a certain mutual “antipathy” between Afro Caribbeans and those from the Asian sub continent, also a similar condition between , (Asian )Indians and Pakistanis, Thais and Phillipinos and Greeks and Turks, to name a few. I have experienced racism myself as a white British person, though to be honest being called White boy and Whitey didn’t bother me, neither did being called a barbarian by Chinese upset me either. And as for being called a Limey, and a Whinging Pom by certain ruffians Downunder, I’ll get you for that you total and utter bounders ! ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412/40 "2011-12-27T19:00:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Good luck finding anyone who will tell you that the Japanese aren’t incredibly racist, though. :Raises hand: Found one! I’ve been to Japan; first as a child when my dad was stationed in Okinawa, and a number of times during my adulthood. I also plan to retire there. YMMV, I guess, but I consider the Japanese to be more insular than racist. Some may say they’re the same thing. I’ve never had a bad experience while in Japan. If anything, although I am biracial, I’m not ethnic-looking enough to be as interesting to the Japanese as black friends I’ve made while there, who are treated, more or less, like the most interesting people in the world, and are emulated, especially by Japanese teens and 20-somethings, which is kind of weird, and somewhat funny to see. Sure, there’s racism in Japan, but it is no where near as pervasive as you seem to believe, and it doesn’t hold a candle to racism against blacks in the US, which I and my parents personally experienced, especially my mom, but my dad too for having the temerity to fall in love with a black woman in the '60s. When I’m in Japan, I’m treated the same as my other non-Japanese colleagues and friends, whether they’re white, black, Hispanic, or anything else. I know anecdotes don’t mean much around here, but there it is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-denial-getting-ridiculous/607412.md?page=3)