# Racism, Kate Smith & School Brawls - Which is More Detrimental to Urban Youth? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 4, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479 "2019-05-04T21:07:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/21 "2019-05-05T01:31:02Z")
Y’know, it’s possible the OP has a point. I mean, here we are, hoping the OP will reply to a reasonable question about whether folks can manage to do two things; and maybe he’s on to something, in that he can’t bring himself to do that _one_ thing. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/22 "2019-05-05T01:36:31Z")
Does this mean I don’t have to hear G_d Bless America at the ball games any more and can go back to enjoying Take Me Out To The Ballgame? If I never again have to see idiots putting their hands on their hearts for G_d Bless America it will make up for idiots tearing down statues since I don’t have to see that every time I watch a ball game. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/23 "2019-05-05T13:58:26Z")
I’m pretty sure you could prevent urban youth from congregating at convenience stores and other such places by broadcasting Kate Smith’s Greatest Hits over the loudspeakers. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/24 "2019-05-05T20:14:18Z")
The brawl appeared to have both black and white fighters, making the OP even more baffling. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/25 "2019-05-05T20:32:39Z")
IIRC, the OP was big on not removing the statues of Confederate generals as well. It’s possible that he just is a big fan of statues. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/26 "2019-05-05T20:37:22Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > IIRC, the OP was big on not removing the statues of Confederate generals as well. It’s possible that he just is a big fan of statues. But how can he argue against removing statues and pursue some second agenda too? That’d involve him having more than one goal, which I thought he thought was some weird and silly logistical implausibility. ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/27 "2019-05-05T22:47:11Z")
^^^^^^^ I think I agree but not sure I follow. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/28 "2019-05-05T23:31:11Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > ^^^^^^^ > I think I agree but not sure I follow. You’re not even trying. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/29 "2019-05-06T01:54:08Z")
I have to ask, is there a reason we are unable to type out the word God? Especially as is pertains to the title of a song? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/30 "2019-05-06T04:23:37Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > I have to ask, is there a reason we are unable to type out the word God? Especially as is pertains to the title of a song? “We” are neither castigated nor prohibited from typing the name of the Divine. There are number of people within more conservative groups within Judaism who, showing respect for the Divine, choose to neither utter the Name nor consignin it to paper where it might be insulted by be thrown in the trash. In order to avoid that potential insult, they modify any word that might be a reference to the Name so that the Name, itself, is not subjected to such insult. (Posts could be printed out with the danger of suffering insult, so such words are modified even in on-line communications.) This practice is their choice and I have never encountered anyone presuming to order Gentiles, (or less conservative Jews), to adhere to the same practice. The rule is not a topic in this thread and I would encourage anyone who has a question, a challenge, or a complaint about it to open a new thread in the appropriate forum. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/31 "2019-05-06T05:37:54Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > “We” are neither castigated nor prohibited from typing the name of the Divine. There are number of people within more conservative groups within Judaism who, showing respect for the Divine, choose to neither utter the Name nor consignin it to paper where it might be insulted by be thrown in the trash. In order to avoid that potential insult, they modify any word that might be a reference to the Name so that the Name, itself, is not subjected to such insult. (Posts could be printed out with the danger of suffering insult, so such words are modified even in on-line communications.) > > This practice is their choice and I have never encountered anyone presuming to order Gentiles, (or less conservative Jews), to adhere to the same practice. > > The rule is not a topic in this thread and I would encourage anyone who has a question, a challenge, or a complaint about it to open a new thread in the appropriate forum. Ignorance faught. No offense intended. Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/32 "2019-05-06T06:40:18Z")
I can’t really see the relationship between the two points made by the OP, but anyway : If you remove statues of people of past generations who were racist, you might as well start by removing those of Washington and pretty much all your founding fathers. I didn’t read the lyrics of this song, but I would bet that they don’t rise to the level of racism expressed in their writings by your main national heroes. I’m generally all for removing statues of people who actively opposed progress, or whose claim to fame can’t really be untied from their hateful actions (and even of that I’m not so sure because a lot of famous people have done a lot of bad things, and could easily be hated instead of honored if we focused on that) but at some point you have to accept that this has to be ignored or to apply damnatio memoriae to pretty much everybody born before 1900 or even later (and since values change, we can expect that the same treatment will be applied in 2119 to those born before 2000 because they condoned killing animals to eat them, or whatever else will be the big moral issue at that time). ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/33 "2019-05-06T06:58:18Z")
Never heard of Kate Smith before this thread but I googled her and, apparently, she had black guests on her radio show back when the NHL didn’t even allow black players. If they want to be consistent, maybe the Flyers should shut themselves down? ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/34 "2019-05-06T12:49:00Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > The brawl appeared to have both black and white fighters, making the OP even more baffling. Even more baffling is that the Philadelphia Flyers don’t even play baseball. I can see why baseball cleats would be helpful when trying to run on an ice rink, but trying to shag a fly in the outfield wearing ice skates? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/35 "2019-05-06T16:16:09Z")
It seems to me to be another example of digging up some very old stuff and applying today’s standards to it. What’s next? We’re going to throw out the Bible because St. Peter condoned slavery by telling slaves to obey their masters? ([1 Peter 2:18](https://biblehub.com/1_peter/2-18.htm)) ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/36 "2019-05-06T16:43:03Z")
I’m still wondering why it is any of my business what a private company does with a decorative statue on their property. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479/37 "2019-05-06T19:42:33Z")
I want to address a point in the OP that I’ve heard from others: “Hey, black people did it, too!” Black artists of that era were constrained to the stereotypes preferred by white audiences and white entertainment industry execs. The OP cited Paul Robeson, so let’s use him as an example. Robeson began as an attorney but quit the business because of racism, [turned to theater:](https://npg.si.edu/exh/robeson/robes2.htm) > [@](#): > > From his father, Robeson learned that his exceptional talents carried a responsibility to represent his race. Eventually he chose a career as a performer, believing that it provided the greatest opportunities for personal recognition and success as well as a platform for the presentation of African American culture and history. A performer, however, does not have complete control over his public image. With few exceptions, Robeson was unable to escape the stereotypes imposed upon him as an African American actor by the theater and film industries. Most of the characters he played were repetitions of traditional images of black people and not, as Robeson had hoped, roles that advanced the cause of his race. Paul Robeson and any other Black performer who acted or sang in stereotypical caricature had little choice. And Robeson actively fought for roles that depicted African-American culture more realistically. Whether or not Smith’s statue should have been removed, let’s not pose black performances as equivalent to those of whites of the era. They are not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-kate-smith-school-brawls-which-is-more-detrimental-to-urban-youth/833479.md?page=1)