# Racism: what is it that you fail to understand??? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 21, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395 "2013-11-21T01:17:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/181 "2014-01-25T13:36:04Z")
> [@texicandan](#): > > The most racist people in the world have got to be white dudes and chicks who TRY to act black by intentionally dumbing-down their dialect and accent. Do blacks not get offended by these idiots? If I were black, I would say “Do I really sound like that?” You just revealed some racialistic misperceptions of your own. AAVE is a dialect, not a “dumbed down” anything. True, in our culture AAVE is perceived by most (including those who speak it regularly) as socioeconomically inferior to SAE. So, your point is a good one – it was just missing a caveat. And, I totally agree that some white Americans sound false (perhaps even insulting) when they try to speak AAVE, while others do not. See my comparison of Jason Williams and Quentin Tarantino’s “Jimmy” character in my previous post. I guess it mainly comes down to the degree to which the speaker has been genuinely immersed in AA culture. But let’s not take this criticism too far. We should applaud the fact that, just in recent years, AAVE is seen as a “prestige dialect” by some whites, in some ways. And, we shouldn’t discourage people in general from trying to learn, and use, new-for-them dialects and languages. Just like when you’re learning Spanish or French, it’s a mistake to wait too long to try it out in the real world. Sure, you’ll make all kinds of mistakes, but don’t be nervous – that’s how you learn! ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/182 "2014-01-25T13:50:12Z")
Perhaps I should take a softer stance regarding Jophiel’s thinking. Basically, he’s saying that Jason Williams (a white-skinned American who speaks AAVE fluently, due to longtime immersion in certain types of African American culture) shouldn’t use the “n” word when speaking AAVE with his black friends, but those friends can use it (and surely use it to refer to HIM, interestingly enough – if they do, that would strengthen the argument that it just means “buddy” in AAVE.) I can see room for debate here. The word is just too tied to skin color in our world to be so completely divorced from any chance of implication, in any context. An interesting question! What if we take it a step further, and picture Jason Williams talking to his equally white, equally AAVE-proficient brother\* – both of them speaking AAVE to each other? I’m sure this sort of thing has happened. I mean speaking it “genuinely” and naturally, not as some sort of hip, ironic game. What then? It seems to me it would be odd for them to OMIT the “n” word whenever they needed to use a word meaning “buddy.” I wonder if any serious scholar has studied this. (\*Hypothetical brother – I know nothing of Mr. Williams’ family.) ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/183 "2014-01-25T14:04:59Z")
> [@For You](#): > > \*This is really a question, but it is not suitable for GQ. If I put it in GD, it will get ugly really fast, this is where it will end up, so it might as well start here. And, well, the issue irks me (and others), the freedom to spit will be helpful. > \* > > Like you right-wingers, I just do not get it. What is so difficult about the concept of racism? You keep asking, “why is this racist when that is not?” And we keep trying to explain it to you, and you go “ok”, and next week the thing circles back on us again. First, no one knows what race is. It is an utterly meaningless concept. If you can define “race” for me, we can talk. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/184 "2014-01-25T14:06:21Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Well, here in America, we have a long-standing tradition of treating other people like shit, and it’s going to take a few more generations at least to work it out of our system, and even then, only if there’s a demonstrably good reason to do it. Yes, I suppose this is why people from all the other nations all want to come to the US. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/185 "2014-01-25T14:35:06Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > Yes, I suppose this is why people from all the other nations all want to come to the US. And all just in the vain hope of getting into bed with your sexy ass. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2014, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/186 "2014-01-28T16:13:55Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > First, no one knows what race is. It is an utterly meaningless concept. If you can define “race” for me, we can talk. Well, we all **kinda** know what race is (even though our “knowledge” is rooted in personal opinions/experience/assumptions/societal norms), its just that we’ll never come to a stable agreement on something so socially malleable. Social concepts naturally change with time and context. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395.md?page=9)