# Racism: what is it that you fail to understand??? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 21, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395 "2013-11-21T01:17:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/21 "2013-11-21T16:10:42Z")
Sexist. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/22 "2013-11-21T16:14:10Z")
Wot’s wrong wiv bein’ sexy? ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/23 "2013-11-21T16:24:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The OP is asking a group of dumb people what they don’t understand. That’s probably not going to be very productive. This. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/24 "2013-11-21T16:33:03Z")
> [@For You](#): > > There was a story some years back of a shop where one of the pipe fitters forced them to change their terminology because the word “jig” bothered him: yes, it sounds absurd, but if people like you could have shelved the epithets for a change, this kind of thing would not happen. Your haughty ignorance is poisoning the well for all the rest of us. You know, I had heard _of_ this word, but never heard it used. Until one day I was talking to the guy who lived across the road from me. He made a reference to “them jigs down the street”. In about .5 seconds, this is what went through my mind: “Oh, the family I haven’t met yet. They must be Mr. and Mrs. Jiggs. Never heard of that surna…ooooooohfuck.” Between that and some other horrible personality traits he had, I wasn’t sad when he died of emphysema. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/25 "2013-11-21T17:11:22Z")
I think there’s a few things at work here, but first and foremost is that racism isn’t an exactly a universally objective thing that everyone can agree on in every case. Certainly, there are cases where the overwhelming majority of people will agree one way or the other and those who disagree look like racists, but there are some situations that aren’t as clear cut. Further, there are some forms of prejudice that often get called racism where that really isn’t what it is, it’s still prejudice, but it’s really prejudism against another class. A good example of this I’ve seen around here is all the discussion about requiring ID for voting, it has the effect of impacting certain races significantly more than others and it’s called racist as a result, but the argument is really that it affects the poor and there’s a strong correlation between the poor and certain racial groups. It’s not an excuse for misunderstanding that something is bad or offensive, but it doesn’t help. The other issue that some people’s world views are skewed enough that it’s difficult understand the problems without a fundamental shift. We see this sort of cognitivie dissonace all the time when it comes to classism, where wealthy people will wonder why poor people don’t just work harder. They just can’t understand those problems because they’ve never been exposed to those hardships. The same can happen with race if you’ve been fairly insulated from racial issues. Worse, it seems a lot of racists are from older generations and grew up in times when some of the things we consider racist now were, if not generally okay, at least seen as not as bad, and they just haven’t changed their views since then. Sure, people in perhaps their 40s or so and younger aren’t too likely to have been raised that way, but people of people who grew up in the 50s or 60s or earlier probably had a lot of that. If you grew up in an environment where your went to segregated high schools, and racial slurs were used without anyone even batting an eye, I think they’ll have greater problems. And, of course, a big part of the problem is it’s precisely these people who are running the country right now. It may well be so ingrained in them that the only way we’ll see this stuff get fixed is when they retire. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/26 "2013-11-22T04:18:57Z")
> [@digs](#): > > My family has mastered the “Mock Outrage” defense: > > \*“Whaaat? If I didn’t like them, would I be calling them a cute word like picaninnies?” > \* > (actual quote, I’m afraid…) Holy. Shit. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/27 "2013-11-22T04:57:21Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The OP is asking a group of dumb people what they don’t understand. That’s probably not going to be very productive. Some RWs are actually otherwise intelligent people. They can do three-variable integrals, write eloquent speeches, locate the elusive short in my dash and even fuck up AMSR satellite data analysis with skillful alacrity in order to poo-poo climate change. But, somehow, not treating _those people_ like crap eludes them. Although, as **Ambivalid** suggested, they may just be using teh stupid as cover. If that is the case, I would like to know, but if they are that dishonest, I surely cannot expect a useful answer from them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/28 "2013-11-22T15:32:49Z")
> [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](#): > > Affirmative action is racism. Government sponsored racism. > > Yay! That bullshit **again?!** ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/29 "2013-11-22T15:43:00Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Personally, I think the real issue isn’t as much classical racism, as much as the problem that here in the US, ethnicity and poverty seem to be very tightly coupled. > > In other words, I think people are less openly racist and hateful than people think, and more classist / anti-poor than we’re willing to admit. > > However, it’s really hard to separate the two. If you say you’re against “welfare abuse” it’s assumed you’re being racist, when technically there’s nothing racist about it. Or talking about immigration reform automatically implies that you’re discussing illegal Mexican immigration, when it may be a broader discussion. Completely agree. On another note: I’m always amused by the politicians that get all whiny because people call them bigots for believing in “traditional” marriage. Sorry guys, just because you want to cram your stupid ideas about marriage inside the nutshell of religion doesn’t mean you get a free pass on being called out on your bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/30 "2013-11-22T15:58:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Fuck, I love boobs, though. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/31 "2013-11-22T16:29:41Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Yeah, it turns out I’m a racist bigot. Love F1, can’t stand NASCAR. Go figure. Elitist. And probably European which is worse. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/32 "2013-11-22T17:46:13Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Elitist. And probably European which is worse. Continentist. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/33 "2013-11-22T17:50:55Z")
This is the kind of reason why people don’t often share their racist stories. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve started to tell a story…only to hesitate. Because people immediately doubt you and leap to the other person’s defense. “Oh…maybe you just misunderstood them. Oh, they didn’t really mean it. Oh, they would have treated anyone like that.” And the subtext is: “No one’s racist like that, not really.” Yes they are. They are nasty and underhanded and subtle. But it’s really why I rarely participate in the race threads around here. Too many instances of being told I am wrong, that nobody was ever racist to me. Even now I kind of don’t want to post this, because I really don’t think it’s going to do any good, and I am sure people will be like “Who said that? On this board? Never!” Yeah. I much prefer the racists that come here saying “Black people have less IQ” or whatever. At least they are overt and blatant and I can avoid them! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/34 "2013-11-22T18:00:22Z")
I tried to tell my Libertarian brother the Tea Party is racist and he called it a “blood libel.” That term actually has been invoked occasionally in American political discourse, sometimes by LWs, usually by RWs. Either way, Jews have the same reaction: “If you are not being accused of abducting children for ritual murder and cannibalism, you are not being blood-libeled.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/35 "2013-11-22T18:41:12Z")
Welcome back, **BG**. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/36 "2013-11-22T19:22:27Z")
> [@For You](#): > > You keep asking, “why is this racist when that is not?” And we keep trying to explain it to you, and you go “ok”, and next week the thing circles back on us again. Because it’s often pretty arbitrary and illogical. Really, it is. I’m a big ole liberal married to a woman from a minority race and it’s still nothing I can see holding up to logic. This doesn’t mean I walk around saying “Well, if HE said it, I’m gonna say it!”. I just let it go because I’m not all that vested in throwing around racial epithets to make a point. Still arbitrary though. ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/37 "2013-11-22T19:49:27Z")
Well not sure what the specifics are here, but it doesn’t help that there ARE some unfair accusations of racism. Plenty of people I’ve seen on MSNBC and other places will claim that the fight against obamacare is rooted in a racist dislike of Obama. I have heard this many times, and I have no doubt that in some cases this is true. But there was a huge fight against Hillary care and I have no doubt that if she had been elected before - much of what happened to Obama would have happened to her. Plenty of people have trouble with affirmative action - and I have to admit - it is a little hard to justify why choosing one person over another based on race is racist in some circumstances and good policy in others. Plenty of people think "well I have never discriminated against a black person - why should I be punished. Unfortunately - I don’t think many people really understand what affirmative action is. They seem to think if you are black you get access to a black only hotline that gives you all these benefits that whites don’t get. I think we’d be better off if we did more complaining about specific behavior and why it is wrong versus calling people socialists, racists, or whatever. People are quick to pick up on perceived unfairness - even if there is a legitimate reason. I have met more than one white person I have heard complain about it is ok for blacks to use the word “nigger”, but not whites. Most of these (I’m pretty sure all) are not itching to use the word, but it REALLY seems to bother them. I think they latch onto what they see as a double standard and are then blinded to anything else. I ask them why they care, and they’ll say something like “it’s just not right/fair”. I think in their minds - they are not racist and think we should have a fresh start. All people should be treated equal. There should be no discrimination, but also nothing to address any previous wrongs. Things like the misinterpretation over what “Ebonics” was doesn’t help either. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/38 "2013-11-22T20:01:04Z")
This is a rather common definition of racism: > [@](#): > > a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. – [Racism Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism) Racism is a subset of bigotry which is, in turn, a subset of prejudice. There are reasons why we have certain words for certain beliefs or behaviors. Much of what is called racist is, in my opinion, bigotry. It all comes from (as \*\*Chimera \*\*points out upthread) what we can call ‘fear of the Other’. A wise old muppet once said, “Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” That having been said, there _ **still** _ are quite a number of Southern politicians who seem to believe that people of primarily European heritage are somehow superior to those who are of primarily African heritage. In the past, folks like this codified these beliefs into law and the culture, and it took a great deal of effort by many people to overturn this codification. Cultural changes take longer. We should be vigilant but we shouldn’t over-react. Crossthread, but pertinent, I believe: “When everything is seen as racist, then nothing can be seen as racist.” ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/39 "2013-11-22T20:08:37Z")
> [@DataX](#): > > I have met more than one white person I have heard complain about it is ok for blacks to use the word “nigger”, but not whites. Most of these (I’m pretty sure all) are not itching to use the word, but it REALLY seems to bother them. I think they latch onto what they see as a double standard and are then blinded to anything else. I ask them why they care, and they’ll say something like “it’s just not right/fair”. I think that what it boils down to in their mind is that if the word is so terrible then no one should be using it. To be told “YOU can’t use the word but I can” sounds infantilizing like mommy and daddy saying “These are grown up words you can’t use yet”. Especially when the word continues to be used casually and carelessly across black media as though it means nothing at all. As I said, it’s arbitrary and illogical. It’s not some big thing in my craw but I sure as hell couldn’t make a sound argument why the current status of the word is “okay”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395/40 "2013-11-22T21:16:52Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I think that what it boils down to in their mind is that if the word is so terrible then no one should be using it. To be told “YOU can’t use the word but I can” sounds infantilizing like mommy and daddy saying “These are grown up words you can’t use yet”. Especially when the word continues to be used casually and carelessly across black media as though it means nothing at all. > > As I said, it’s arbitrary and illogical. It’s not some big thing in my craw but I sure as hell couldn’t make a sound argument why the current status of the word is “okay”. This is the sound argument, as I understand it: “nigger” has a different meaning in different dialects of English- specifically, it is more like “brother” or “buddy” in African-American Vernacular English, but in standard American English, it is a vile racial slur. So when a native speaker of African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) uses it, it’s generally not offensive, but it is offensive when someone who is not a native speaker of that dialect uses it. So basically, if your native dialect (that is, the dialect you grew up speaking) is AAVE, you can use the word as is normal in that dialect. But if you’re not a native speaker of that dialect, you probably shouldn’t be using the word. If you’re not a native speaker of AAVE, even if you try to use it in the way it’s meant in that dialect, native speakers of AAVE will be able to tell that you aren’t a native speaker and may be offended. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racism-what-is-it-that-you-fail-to-understand/674395.md?page=3)