Engaging in discussion is not always the same as staying on topic. Going over all the ways that one might use the term “inferior” is not as important to this thread as a person’s ability to use a term like racist for a person who fits the description. And so far, everybody opposed to the idea has failed to show that CP’s arguments are not racist and that he is not a racist. You’ve all also notably failed to identify what he is if not a racist.
All of the contrary arguments about using the term racist and the applicability of the term in this situation only succeed if we allow extra special ways to define the term, like adding in “malice” or “animus”. Now there seems to be some obsession over the term “inferior”. Yet it is a simple open and shut case: you think a race is inherently inferior in one way or another then you’re a racist. It’s easy.
magellan01, can you answer this question I posed in post #484:
Is it racist to assert that black people are inherently inferior in intelligence if the only supporting data is terrible/worthless/feeble, or if there is no supporting data whatsoever?
If you think that it is, as I do, then the only disagreement here is about the terribleness (or not terribleness) of the data in question.
Just answer the man’s question. It was fair and on point.
As far as who has to prove what, you have it backwards. Those claiming him to be a racist need to prove that he is, lest they be guilty of insulting people and labeling them willy nilly. To make the point, if I say you’re a pedophile, I need to be able to support that charge. And the veracity of the charge will hang on the weight of the evidence I present. Correct. (For the record, I am not calling you a pedophile or insinuating that you are or even might be.)
Well, I think you’re the only one who believes that in this thread. Even iiandyiiii has stated that merely pointing out that one race is inferior in stature or melanin is not racist.
I think you are correct in that may very well be the crux of our disagreement. I see it as evidence. I, and I don’t think you have even questioned the veracity of the evidence. But you seem to think it makes a weaker case (virtually zero) that I do. But I do see not a small amount of evidence that supports his hypothesis and indicates that his points are not the rantings of a racist, nor, due to the evidence and how he is looking at it, racist.
Inbred, can I call you Inbred(?), I thought I’d just repost this so you can answer while tracking things easily:
[QUOTE=Fotheringay-Phipps]
So based on the above, I assume you would agree with the following:
Suppose Poster 1 says “members of Group A have, on average, inferior intelligence to members of Group B”, and then Poster 2 comes along and says “Poster 1 says members of Group A are inferior to members of Group B”, Poster 2 is misrepresenting what Poster 1 actually said.
[QUOTE=Inbred Mm domesticus]
When Poster 1 says “members of Race A have, on average, inherently inferior intelligence to members of Race B”, and then Poster 2 comes along and says “Poster 1 is a racist”, Poster 2 is correct.
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Fotheringay-Phipps]
OK.
But what about the question that I asked?
[/QUOTE]
Honestly hard to parse some of the grammar and wording here, but I think you’re mostly agreeing with me (other than our differing views of CP’s supporting data).
In light of this, you can see why I call these assertions “racist”, even if you disagree that they rise to that level. I hope you’ll also give me the benefit of the doubt that, by calling an assertion racist if I believe it is so, I am not trying to shut down any discussion, but rather both accurately characterize assertions that I believe are problematic and to “do unto others as I would have them do unto me”. I honestly believe that calling racist assertions racist is doing the speaker a favor, even if it seems like a harsh one. Some people (perhaps even most who say such things) truly have no idea that the racist stuff they say is racist. I don’t expect to change CP’s mind, but my input may affect the way other people see the issue.
It is really more comical, in the context of the history, to see conservative white americans trying to argue that there is nothing very pejorative or necessarily insulting in saying less intelligent is not necessarily saying lesser worth in the context of a Race discussion… As if 200 years of ugly history and language did not and does not still exists…
Ah yes, in a world devoid of any history and of any context… of the words or their usage in the context of the idea of the Races…
but then in that world, the word racist is only the simple descriptive.
Strange.
That is right in this Policitally Correct analysis, why to talk about a race being of the inferior intelligence is just like talking about the height … Why it is the same type of subject…
and one is unable to have any conclusions.
But this is unfortunately at the heart of the discourse used now by them, poor use of the statistical concepts.
It is fun for them to assert that “blacks on average” are less intelligent - making of course all the strongest assumptions on the weak and incoherent data - and ignoring the great problems in asserting conclusions on simple arithmatic means for a population set that from what is already know from its very divergent genetical backgrounds with skewed distribution of the traits that is unlikely to be normal.
something like building an economic analysis of a market potential on the simple average of income in a country-population that is known to have a highly skewed and highly divergent distribution of the income and the wealth.
Thank-you for the lecture. There must be 1000s of posts, many of them hijacking threads on unrelated topics, showing CP’s system of belief. Everything else you wrote is stupid.
He’s wrong not to. Nobody gets offended by saying either comparative statement in terms of race in our society and with our cultural understanding of race. Yet there are far more accurate ways to discuss human variation in melanin, stature, and all human traits than by “race” but I don’t wish to expend effort on either subject because our society and the success of its individuals relies far more heavily on intelligence and test-taking than it does height and skin tone. Racial claims about melanin have little implication for public policy and the outcomes of American citizens. Racial claims about intelligence clearly do.