# Racist Presidents. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 27, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234 "2018-04-27T18:21:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/1 "2018-04-27T18:21:38Z")
I often hear people lament this or that president was racist. Washington and Jefferson owned slaves. I once read a quote from the Lincoln-Douglas debates (sorry no cite for now). Lincoln said, yes, blacks were intellectually and morally inferior (whatever that last one even means). But they deserved to be free, which I guess is hopeful. I think Lincoln also initially wanted to send them all back to Africa, which is rather racist too. Woodrow Wilson was apparently a pretty obvious racist. That is rather sad, because he was one of our greatest presidents. How would World War I have ended up, without him? Actually though I have just one question: **Weren’t _all_ presidents, pre-FDR, basically racist?** That certainly would explain a lot. I know the Republican party was nominally the party of African Americans, pre-FDR. But even they had their share of characters. Teddy Roosevelt was very anti-immigrant, apparently (despite ironically being Dutch, not English). But that is all I know. Also, I should point out I mean racist by \*\*modern \*\* standards. I am sure at the time, people thought they were just fine. 🙂 🙂 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/2 "2018-04-27T18:32:22Z")
LBJ was an obvious bigot and racist. ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/3 "2018-04-27T18:35:35Z")
Coolidge had the most progressive views on race of any, pre-FDR, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/4 "2018-04-27T18:37:04Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > LBJ was an obvious bigot and racist. I know LBJ (President Lyndon Baines Johnson, for you non-Americans;)) passed the civil rights act. He then shook hands with Martin Luther King afterwards. Could you elaborate more on what you mean? ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/5 "2018-04-27T18:38:12Z")
[![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RovF1zsDoeM/hqdefault.jpg "AVENUE Q - 'Everybody's a Little Racist,' Broadway Cast") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM) ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_B](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jim_b/32/4338_2.png) [@Jim\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_B)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/6 "2018-04-27T18:38:13Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > Coolidge had the most progressive views on race of any, pre-FDR, no doubt. Sorry. I think we double posted. But again, could you elaborate:). ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/7 "2018-04-27T18:40:52Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > Coolidge had the most progressive views on race of any, pre-FDR, no doubt. Grant overcame some early racist tendencies and became a strong advocate for the former slaves. > [@](#): > > “To Grant more than any other man the Negro owes his enfranchisement,” wrote Frederick Douglass, a black leader and a frequent White House guest. It did not stop there. Grant named blacks, Jews and native Americans to federal positions. [cite](https://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21729978-though-his-presidency-was-famous-corruption-his-personal-integrity-and) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/8 "2018-04-27T18:46:00Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Also, I should point out I mean racist by \*\*modern \*\* standards. That makes the question almost meaningless. A large majority of people pre-WWII, and an overwhelming majority pre-20th century, were racist by modern standards (which in turn would make it almost impossible for anyone who wasn’t racist by modern standards to be elected to any significant office unless he concealed his views on the subject). It’s more useful to consider the question of who was racist even by the standards of their own time. For instance, Woodrow Wilson reversed an existing policy of racial integration in the federal civil service, showing that his racism was objectively worse than that of the previous presidents who initiated and carried out the policy. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/9 "2018-04-27T18:57:17Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > I once read a quote from the Lincoln-Douglas debates (sorry no cite for now). Lincoln said, yes, blacks were intellectually and morally inferior (whatever that last one even means). But they deserved to be free, which I guess is hopeful. I think Lincoln also initially wanted to send them all back to Africa, which is rather racist too. [Here’s one cite (from Snopes)](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-lincoln-racism-equality-oppose/), along with some discussion. Lincoln was more enlightened than many of his contemporaries, especially toward the end of his life, but not by today’s standards. > [@Jim\_B](#): > > I know LBJ (President Lyndon Baines Johnson, for you non-Americans;)) passed the civil rights act. He then shook hands with Martin Luther King afterwards. > > Could you elaborate more on what you mean? I, too, wonder what you mean. As I understand it, LBJ did more for civil rights/African Americans than any other 20th century President, even though he knew it would politically hurt both him personally and the Democratic party in the South. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/10 "2018-04-27T19:04:52Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > Also, I should point out I mean racist by \*\*modern \*\* standards. The thing about historical standards is…whose standard? The standard of black people in 1870? The standard of white abolitionists? Or are we just talking about the standards of median white opinion? We would not look at a figure like Hitler and assess whether he was a racist _for his time_ by asking what the median Christian German voter thought. Instead, we would also be interested in what the people he oppressed thought and what his opposition thought. I suggest we ought to apply the same standards to U.S. Presidents. What did black people think about whether they were racist? The answers turn out to be pretty interesting, I think. Lincoln is a great example. In the end, he won over folks like Frederick Douglas. I think that’s a much better barometer of whether he was racist for his time than asking what a bunch of white men thought. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/11 "2018-04-27T19:17:19Z")
LBJ was a southern man, who used the ‘n’ word in his colorful language. When he was in the Senate he voted against every civil rights bill that came through. He famously said “I will have every n\_\_\_\_\_\_ voting Democrat for the next 200 years”. He went on as POTUS to sign the Civil Rights bill and get many entitlements passed for the poor. He was a paradox. I obviously don’t know how he felt about racism in his heart, but he spoke and conducted himself like most southern men of his age. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/12 "2018-04-27T19:36:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually though I have just one question: Weren’t all presidents, pre-FDR, basically racist? That certainly would explain a lot. By today’s standards I’d say FDR and all the presidents up to maybe Clinton would be considered racist. And, of course, we have our current president. If we are judging them by their own standards of the day then it’s different, but things have changed so much that it’s impossible that they wouldn’t be racist by today’s standards. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/13 "2018-04-27T19:41:14Z")
Trump is certainly racist. At least the neo-Nazis, white supremacists, skinheads, etc. who adore him certainly think so. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/14 "2018-04-27T19:48:18Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > I know LBJ (President Lyndon Baines Johnson, for you non-Americans;)) passed the civil rights act. He then shook hands with Martin Luther King afterwards. So? Lincoln abolished slavery, which is the most important step forward in US history. He was still a racist. LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act, and was still a racist. These aren’t logical contradictions. In my opinion, it’s basically impossible to _not_ be racist. You’re racist, I’m racist, Martin Luther King, Jr was racist. The trick to enlightenment is to accept that you have racist tendencies, listen to people of other races, and strive to do better. The shitty thing to do is to loudly deny it, dig in your heels and make no effort to improve yourself at all, while lashing out at others. Some historical people were better at this sort of introspection and self improvement than others. Coming from deeply racist societies and cultures, their progress may not have been as _far_ as we’d like, but I try to judge them based on the _direction_ they went rather than where they ended up. The good ones tried to make things better. The bad ones smugly considered themselves superior, resisted progress, or even used violence and intimidation to enforce their prejudices. And of course, some did both. People are complicated. Nobody is entirely good or bad, but all of us are varying mixtures of same. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/15 "2018-04-27T20:42:02Z")
It’s easy to judge people by the standards of our time. But some of the things most of us believe today might seem appalling in the future. Repatriating former slaves in Liberia etc. was a progressive position at one time. With that said, Wilson was the most shockingly racist even by the standards of his time. > [@Jim\_B](#): > > I know the Republican party was nominally the party of African Americans, pre-FDR. But even they had their share of characters. Teddy Roosevelt was very anti-immigrant, apparently (despite ironically being Dutch, not English). But that is all I know. With regards to what? The only charge for him I know of is that he used some non-PC language against Native Americans, but then some of those tribes were in active war with the US at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/16 "2018-04-27T21:22:11Z")
> [@XT](#): > > By today’s standards I’d say FDR and all the presidents up to maybe Clinton would be considered racist. And, of course, we have our current president. Huh? According to Kanye, “Bush doesn’t care about black people” and said, “I love Donald Trump”. Who am I to believe?? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/17 "2018-04-27T21:35:31Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Huh? According to Kanye, “Bush doesn’t care about black people” and said, “I love Donald Trump”. Who am I to believe?? This is the same answer for Trump…were his lips moving? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/18 "2018-04-27T21:40:27Z")
My impression of LBJ was that he was racist to the bone, but knew it was wrong. He was also a politician, an arm-twister of the first rank, and knew that doing the right thing was going to be very, very expensive for his party. I doubt JFK could have done it, even if he had the will. Seems to me that he and Bobby were credited as being a lot more progressive than they really were. And so it goes. Here’s my take: LBJ wasn’t comfortable shaking hands with _any_ black man, but it was MLK, so he did it. And MLK knew that, and forgave. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/19 "2018-04-28T00:46:43Z")
> [@XT](#): > > By today’s standards I’d say FDR and all the presidents up to maybe Clinton would be considered racist. No, because Jimmy Carter’s anti-racist bonafides are impeccable. He was struggling for racial equality against his own church in the '50s and '60s. He completely quit the Southern Baptist denomination because they weren’t sufficiently progressive on race. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234/20 "2018-04-28T01:50:39Z")
One thing you might look at is the number of high level administration appointments who were black. And Robert Weaver appointed by LBJ in 1966 was the first black Cabinet Secretary: > **[List of African-American United States Cabinet members](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_African-American_United_States_Cabinet_Secretaries)** > > The Cabinet of the United States, which is the principal advisory body to the president of the United States, has had 25 permanent African-American members serving as vice president or head of one of the federal executive departments and 10 African-American as cabinet-level officials, which can differ under each president. Of that number, one African-American was elected vice president, one was appointed to the helm of multiple different departments, and no one served both as Cabinet and Cab... [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/racist-presidents/813234.md?page=2)