# Radiation Cats: Wikipedia lore or a real suggestion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 23, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679 "2011-03-23T02:35:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/1 "2011-03-23T02:35:00Z")
Halfway down Wikipedia’s article about Nuclear Semiotics is the incredible suggestion by two scientists to breed “Radiation Cats”… [wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear\_semiotics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_semiotics#Francois_Bastide_and_Paolo_Fabbri) > [@](#): > > French authors Francois Bastide and Paolo Fabbri propose the breeding of so called radiation cats. Cats have been domesticated for thousands of years and most certainly will be in the future. These radiation cats should change significantly in color when they get in contact with radioactive emissions and serve as living warning indicators. In order to transport the message, the cats should be braced in the collective awareness through fairy tales and myths. This can be reached through poetry, music and painting. So, as one would do having just read about such a thing, I searched for more on this and all I could find online are pages that (rather precisely) duplicate the Wikipedia entry. So two questions come to mind which I thought the Dope could help me with: 1. Is this for real, or is this a corner of Wikipedia which has no basis in truth? 2. Could Radiation Cats actually be bred as described? I did a study into the historical domestication of cats as part of the history part of my degree so I find it a very interesting concept. I also find it a rather humorous one… ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/2 "2011-03-23T02:56:54Z")
Who would buy such an animal? What is the target market? ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/3 "2011-03-23T03:46:35Z")
From what I have read, the idea for radiation cats was, in part, warn people in the future about areas which are radioactive. Since radioactive waste can be harmful for thousands of years, how do you warn people not to bother it, and to stay out of the area? Some figured signs would be helpful, but who knows if our language will be intelligible to them. Future people may also ignore our warning like we ignored the curse of the pharaohs in Egypt. In short, I think it was more of a thought experiment than an actual suggestion to bred such cats. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/4 "2011-03-23T04:07:51Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/5 "2011-03-23T05:02:16Z")
Seems stupid. Cats have no hair-color changing ability to start with in such breeding. Their hair color is determined by heredity prior to birth, and does not significantly change during their lifetime (except for some fading or graying as they age, just like humans). I don’t think they even have any physical mechanism to affect the color of their hair in any way. So it’d be really hard to selectively breed them to pass on a trait that they don’t even have. It might be more sensible to concentrate on species that already have some chromatophoric abilities, like chameleons, some frogs, some fish, and several insects. You would at least have a genetic base to star breeding from. But they are mostly less mobile, and more restricted as to environment than cats. However, it’s hard to picture any of them displacing cats as the favorite pet of humans. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/6 "2011-03-23T05:16:00Z")
It would make more sense to breed _plants_ as indicators. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/7 "2011-03-23T05:19:24Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Since radioactive waste can be harmful for thousands of years, how do you warn people not to bother it, and to stay out of the area? Check out the [New Mexico Waste Isolation Pilot Plant](http://www.wipp.energy.gov/) (WIPP) [design for notifying future generations](http://www.wipp.energy.gov/fctshts/PICs.pdf) (PDF warning). ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/8 "2011-03-23T05:22:46Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > It would make more sense to breed plants as indicators. Much more sense. Learning that a beloved kitteh is radioactive would be traumatic. You just toss a dying plant. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/9 "2011-03-23T05:25:38Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Since radioactive waste can be harmful for thousands of years, how do you warn people not to bother it, and to stay out of the area? Some figured signs would be helpful, but who knows if our language will be intelligible to them. Signs like [this](http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/images/newradiationsymbol_300x200.gif). Pretty evident that whatever is behind the sign is pretty bad for you. Although I guess some people might interpret it as something that gives you X-ray vision and super speed. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/10 "2011-03-23T06:43:54Z")
> [@](#): > > In order to transport the message, the cats should be braced in the collective awareness through fairy tales and myths. This can be reached through poetry, music and painting. Wha? ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/11 "2011-03-23T07:59:54Z")
> [@TravisFromOR](#): > > Signs like [this](http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/images/newradiationsymbol_300x200.gif). Attic fans cool skulls and guys running that way -\> ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/12 "2011-03-23T08:18:07Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Seems stupid. > > Cats have no hair-color changing ability to start with in such breeding. Their hair color is determined by heredity prior to birth, and does not significantly change during their lifetime (except for some fading or graying as they age, just like humans). Not quite true. Remember the first cloned cat from a few years ago? It didn’t look much like its “parent” and it was explained at the time that cats’ coloration is determined by environmental factors in the womb. > [@](#): > > I don’t think they even have any physical mechanism to affect the color of their hair in any way. So it’d be really hard to selectively breed them to pass on a trait that they don’t even have. The only way to do it would be to gengineer some cats to produce some kind of radiation sensitive substance in their hair folicles. Said substance would have to turn some unusual color (e.g. green) when exposed to large amounts of radioactivity. But it would not change if only exposed to ordinary background radiation. And this new gene would have to breed true for many generations. Personally, I have doubts it would work. I just checked the wiki page cited in the OP and the “radiation cats” stuff is not there. Possibly this was a joke that someone removed as a result of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/13 "2011-03-23T08:32:35Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Wha? I’m with you on this one. Bracing a cat in collective awareness of anything really sounds like about as much fun as… herding cats. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/14 "2011-03-23T11:23:44Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > Check out the [New Mexico Waste Isolation Pilot Plant](http://www.wipp.energy.gov/) (WIPP) [design for notifying future generations](http://www.wipp.energy.gov/fctshts/PICs.pdf) (PDF warning). Sounds like that would work as long as people retained a good scientific knowledge of radiation, and could understand contemporary languages. But after that point? Who **wouldn’t** want to explore the Mysterious Berm Full Of Anomalies And Ringed By Enigmatic Monuments? Even if they could interpret all of the warnings, I doubt that would stop many explorers. How many people were ultimately deterred by (perhaps apocryphal) curses written on the entrances to tombs? Clearly someone is just hiding something of unimaginable value! Frankly it seems like trying to deter cats with catnip and laser pointers. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/15 "2011-03-23T12:00:34Z")
Wouldn’t it be easier to just kill the cats \*before \*they change color and bring the Wasting Curse upon us all? An ounce of prevention and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/16 "2011-03-23T12:43:53Z")
Sure, it seems like a good idea _now_, but what are you going to do when the cats turn green and gain (even more) mysterious superpowers? ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/17 "2011-03-23T13:51:21Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I just checked the wiki page cited in the OP and the “radiation cats” stuff is not there. Possibly this was a joke that someone removed as a result of this thread. I thought this might happen which was why I copied the segment in the question. To prove I wasn’t mischief-making, a simple Google search will, for the time being, show that it was on the page. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/18 "2011-03-23T14:00:14Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > Sounds like that would work as long as people retained a good scientific knowledge of radiation, and could understand contemporary languages. But after that point? Who **wouldn’t** want to explore the Mysterious Berm Full Of Anomalies And Ringed By Enigmatic Monuments? Even if they could interpret all of the warnings, I doubt that would stop many explorers. How many people were ultimately deterred by (perhaps apocryphal) curses written on the entrances to tombs? Clearly someone is just hiding something of unimaginable value! > > Frankly it seems like trying to deter cats with catnip and laser pointers. Precisely. Seems to me they’re just going to kill future archaeologists. “The Curse of the WIPP Berm” – real or just a scary story? ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/19 "2011-03-23T14:52:21Z")
We should have a ‘write a radiation cats warning fairy tale/poem/song to embed in the cultural subconscious’-contest. _Do Not Play with Green Cats_, _Don’t Be Seen Where the Cats Are Green_, _A Green Cat on Your Porch: Burn it Down with a Torch!_, _Where Green Cats Tread is No Fun to be Had_… The possibilities are endless! ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679/20 "2011-03-23T15:02:29Z")
Seems like a better approach would be to find a way to neutralize/eliminate the waste so that people a thousand years from don’t have to deal with it. Can you imagine how pissed they’re going to be? “I’m getting sick from this shit because some jerks a thousand years ago couldn’t clean up their messes?” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radiation-cats-wikipedia-lore-or-a-real-suggestion/575679.md?page=2)