# Radical Conservative **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 15, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-conservative/752286 "2016-04-15T17:46:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-conservative/752286/21 "2016-04-18T00:07:03Z")
> [@Ignotus](#): > > So, should the Communist Party of the Russian Federation be called “reactionary”? Not really. They’d be revolutionary. Both reactionaries and revolutionaries want to replace the current political system with something different but they disagree on what the replacement should be. Granted, things can get confusing in Russia where a left-wing revolutionary government historically existed. So communist revolutionaries in Russia are, in one sense, attempting to restore the past. But I think a more accurate reflection of the reactionary position in Russia would be some movement to restore the Tsarist government. ---
**Author:** ![OffByOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@OffByOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OffByOne)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-conservative/752286/22 "2016-04-18T18:08:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The spectrum I heard was Revolutionary – Liberal – Centrist – Conservative – Reactionary. Radical was just a term for being out on either extreme. So a Radical Liberal was a Revolutionary and a Radical Conservative was a Reactionary. At the time that I was learning this, and shortly afterwards, there were a lot of people advocating for the end of the Viet Nam War and civil rights, among other social objectives. Those people were tagged by the press as “Radicals.” It may have been this juxtaposition of history and my paper-thin learning that made me believe that “radicals” were to “liberalism” as “reactionaries” were to conservatism, and the term “revolutionary” faded into my background. Thanks for re-educating me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-conservative/752286/23 "2016-04-18T18:20:59Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Is Trump a radical centrist? Trump’s political agenda or ideology, if any, is not sufficiently enunciated for any meaningful answer to that question to be made or even considered. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-conservative/752286/24 "2016-04-18T18:32:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Not really. They’d be revolutionary. [They might not be that either.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_the_Russian_Federation#Ideology) It appears that what they want is for Russia to be a social democracy rather than a Soviet-style totalitarian state – but, then, starting from this point, even that might well require changes so deep and systemic as to qualify as revolutionary. > [@](#): > > **Party program** > > Under the present conditions in the Russian Federation, the Communist Party believes it is necessary to:[17] > Stop the extinction of the country, restore benefits for large families, reconstruct the network of public kindergartens and provide housing for young families. > Nationalize natural resources in Russia and the strategic sectors of the economy; revenues in these industries are to be used in the interests of all citizens. > Return to Russia from foreign banks the state financial reserves and use them for economic and social development. > Break the system of total fraud in the elections. > Create a truly independent judiciary. > Carry out an immediate package of measures to combat poverty and introduce price controls on essential goods. > Not raise the retirement age. > Restore government responsibility for housing and utilities, establish fees for municipal services in an amount not more than 10% of family income, stop the eviction of people to the streets, expand public housing. > Increase funding for science and scientists to provide decent wages and all the necessary research. > Restore the highest standards of universal and free secondary and higher education that existed during the Soviet era. > Ensure the availability and quality of health care. > Vigorously develop high-tech manufacturing. > Ensure the food and environmental security of the country and support the large collective farms for the production and processing of agricultural products. > Prioritize domestic debt over foreign debt (to compensate for household deposits, burnt in the disastrous years of “reform”[clarification needed]). > Introduce progressive taxation; low-income citizens will be exempt from paying taxes. > Create conditions for development of small and medium enterprises. > Ensure the accessibility of cultural goods, stop the commercialization of culture, defend Russian culture as the foundation of the spiritual unity of multinational Russia, the national culture of all citizens of the country. > Stop the slandering of the Russian and Soviet history. > Take drastic measures to suppress corruption and crime. > Strengthen national defense and expand social guarantees to servicemen and law enforcement officials. > Ensure the territorial integrity of Russia and the protection of compatriots abroad. > Institute a foreign policy based on mutual respect of countries and peoples to facilitate the voluntary restoration of the Union of States. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-conservative/752286/25 "2016-04-30T17:01:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [They might not be that either.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_the_Russian_Federation#Ideology) It appears that what they want is for Russia to be a social democracy rather than a Soviet-style totalitarian state – but, then, starting from this point, even that might well require changes so deep and systemic as to qualify as revolutionary. Did you read that link? Their platform includes large scale nationalizations, price controls, and ‘large collective farms’, which don’t sound like any social democracy I’m aware of. Anyway, that is their _minimum_ list of immediate goals under present-day conditions. They want a relatively gradual (three stage) transition to full communism, and I suspect if they ever achieved it they would allow a bigger role for market prices than the Soviets allowed (which is not inherently incompatible with communism, see Yugoslavia), but their ultimate goal is the same as it’s always been, communism. The real thing that sets them apart, in principle, from the Soviets is that they’re much more favourable to the Orthodox Church, more culturally conservative, and much more into the defence of Russian nationality and ethnicity. They’re certainly hard Left-wing, but whether you call them reactionary or revolutionary is up to you. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-conservative/752286/26 "2016-05-01T03:07:32Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > The problem is that political thinking isn’t always along a linear spectrum. There are political philosophies that don’t fall anywhere along that x-axis. Of course, to an outsider, these philosophies are neatly placed along the linear spectrum anyway, usually toward the opposite end. This, basically. College “Government” textbook author Kenneth Janda et al categorize political philosophies along two perpendicular axes. We had a thread about three years ago that discussed these things: [Are there any “left wing” libertarians?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=688253) I chimed in at [Post #16](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16199810&postcount=16) with a description of Janda’s two-axis scheme, and at [Post #17](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16199885&postcount=17) with a diagram. So take a look at those two posts (or even the whole thread there) for some other views about how political philosophies can be organized. ETA: See also the Wiki page [Political spectrum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum) for discussion of several other ways to categorize political thought along two axes, with several diagrams of the different idea. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-conservative/752286/27 "2016-05-05T14:30:12Z")
> [@OffByOne](#): > > When I took Civics in high school, I was taught the political spectrum like this (from left to right): > > Radical – Liberal – Centrist – Conservative – Reactionary > > Nowadays (almost 50 years later), I hear and read the term “radical conservative,” which sounds like an oxymoron. If a radical is liberal++, how could a conservative be an uber-liberal? What is it supposed to mean, reactionary? If so, why don’t they just use that term? ISTM that the original meaning of “conservative” encompassed not only what we think of today as conservative social and economic values but also traditionalism and resistance to change, the kinds of values that always make me think of Jim Anderson in _Father Knows Best_. “Radical conservatism” today refers not only to radical proposals for sweeping changes to support those values, like shutting down major portions of the federal government, but entirely new radical proposals like aggressive foreign policy. I always find it amusing when a label like “conservative” is applied to some frothing-at-the-mouth extremist proposing schemes straight out of some dystopian science fiction story. > [@NeonMadman](#): > > … The center tends to shift over time, mostly to the left. The average Democrat today appears to me to be more liberal than those who were called “radicals” in the 1960s when I was a teenager. And people nowadays who think like centrists did back then are likely to be labeled “radical conservatives” or “reactionaries.” I disagree. A few specific _ **issues** _ that were once championed by the left, like women’s rights and LGBT rights, have migrated to the center in the natural and inevitable process of social evolution, but it would be a mistake to see that as a generalized movement to the left. It’s actually been the opposite. It’s astounding to think that all the opposition to the ACA, for instance, was over a plan essentially the same as proposed years ago by a conservative think tank and indeed proposed by Richard Nixon. Nixon also established the EPA, which today conservatives are trying to shut down. One can only imagine the conservative revolt if anything like Social Security or Medicare didn’t already exist and either one was proposed today as a brand new program – it would be condemned by current conservative thinkers as the worst kind of “socialism” and not only wouldn’t have a hope of passing in Congress, the mere proposal of it would be political suicide. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-conservative/752286.md?page=1)