# Radical (Extreme) Left in US **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 21, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457 "2012-10-21T22:18:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/1 "2012-10-21T22:18:22Z")
I hear lot of times for this term especially in relation to “terrorism” so I was wondering who are Radical Left people in US, what are their major ideas, what are their institutions or what institution are most likely to have them and what would be an example of their media channels and/or presence in media? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/2 "2012-10-21T22:34:23Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > I hear lot of times for this term especially in relation to “terrorism” Really? From who, the people who think Arlen Specter was a pinko? The radical left hasn’t been a force in domestic terrorism since the 1970s, maybe the 1980s in Germany. Offhand, I can’t think of any active far-left terrorist groups, unless you think the ALF (Animal Liberation Front) still counts as ‘active’. All of the modern hype around terrorism has focused on Islamist groups since 9/11, and far-right ‘patriot’ groups before that. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/3 "2012-10-21T23:40:27Z")
It depends who you are. Obama has been described as radical left and socialist (as well as fascist and nazi but that’s another matter). From a world perspective, I’d say that Obama’s views are really not very far left at all. I certainly don’t know all their views well enough to tell, he’s probably but not certainly in the left half of Democrats in Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/4 "2012-10-21T23:49:50Z")
The ‘Left vs Right’ paradigm means different things in different parts of the world (although there are usually a few commonalities). In America today the extreme radical Left would be those who want the US to convert completely to socialism, or even better Marxist-Leninism (no private property, govt controls prices & wages, from each according to ability - to each according to need etc.). They are not a significantly supported ideology anywhere in the United States today. In fact, they are generally universally shunned as being completely un-American (which they are). Consequently they do not have enough (or really any) grass-roots support to be a factor anywhere in the current US political scene. Anytime you hear the term ‘left-wing terrorist group’ I can almost guarantee you they are not referring to anything US-based… ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/5 "2012-10-22T02:47:26Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Really? From who, the people who think Arlen Specter was a pinko? > > The radical left hasn’t been a force in domestic terrorism since the 1970s, maybe the 1980s in Germany. Offhand, I can’t think of any active far-left terrorist groups, unless you think the ALF (Animal Liberation Front) still counts as ‘active’. All of the modern hype around terrorism has focused on Islamist groups since 9/11, and far-right ‘patriot’ groups before that. The [Earth Liberation Front](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front) might fit the bill. Just before the UW [firebombing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Washington_firebombing_incident) in 2001, they were flagged as domestic terrorists by the FBI. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/6 "2012-10-22T03:45:53Z")
There’s also those supposed anarchists that occasionally come out of the woodwork to smash stuff during otherwise peaceful protests, usually in the Northwest, but I don’t know if that really rises to the level of terrorism or if their own particular flavor of anarchism is coherent enough to qualify as political at all, let alone left wing. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/7 "2012-10-22T03:51:12Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/8 "2012-10-22T06:09:09Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > In fact, they are generally universally shunned as being completely un-American (which they are). No, that parenthetical remark is. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/9 "2012-10-22T09:27:31Z")
The Occupy Wall St (or your city) people would probably qualify as the far left. Most people would probably not consider them to be terrorists, though. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/10 "2012-10-22T10:01:13Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > The [Earth Liberation Front](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front) might fit the bill. Just before the UW [firebombing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Washington_firebombing_incident) in 2001, they were flagged as domestic terrorists by the FBI. Those are the ones I was thinking of, as well as some animals rights groups (of the sort who think PETA is too nice). They do exist. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/11 "2012-10-23T08:19:14Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Really? From who, the people who think Arlen Specter was a pinko? > > The radical left hasn’t been a force in domestic terrorism since the 1970s, maybe the 1980s in Germany. Offhand, I can’t think of any active far-left terrorist groups, unless you think the ALF (Animal Liberation Front) still counts as ‘active’. All of the modern hype around terrorism has focused on Islamist groups since 9/11, and far-right ‘patriot’ groups before that. In Germany, left-wing terrorism lasted until the 1990s. In 1991, the RAF murdered [Detlev Karsten Rohwedder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detlev_Karsten_Rohwedder) who was a key figure in privatizing East Germany property after German unification. In 1993, a Federal Police officer was killed when a SWAT team tried to arrest a RAF member (who was also killed in the incident). In 1998, the RAF announced that it had dissolved. Other than that, “terrorism” is a loaded word which is avoided by the press. But violent attacks on police stations, law enforcement officers, military installations, civil servants who handle immigration cases etc. happen on a regular basis to this day (fortunately none of these were lethal, but there were close escapes). ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/12 "2012-10-23T08:27:49Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > In Germany, left-wing terrorism lasted until the 1990s. In 1991, the RAF murdered [Detlev Karsten Rohwedder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detlev_Karsten_Rohwedder) who was a key figure in privatizing East Germany property after German unification. In 1993, a Federal Police officer was killed when a SWAT team tried to arrest a RAF member (who was also killed in the incident). In 1998, the RAF announced that it had dissolved. Right. I didn’t remember the Red Army Faction (a.k.a. Baader-Meinhof Gang, a.k.a. Red Army Fraction) lasted that long. However, in my defense, their biggest activities _were_ in the German Autumn of 1977. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/13 "2012-10-23T09:00:19Z")
There were brutal deadly attacks by the RAF all through the 1980s, among others the murder of US Army specialist [Edward Pimental](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Pimental) in 1985 who was killed by the terrorists just to get his military ID card (which was used for an attack in which another US serviceman as well as a civilian employee were killed; Birgit Hogefeld, the woman terrorist who set up Pimental, was released from prison last year, BTW). The attacks of this period were committed by terrorists who belonged to the so-called “3rd generation” of the RAF. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/14 "2012-10-23T09:14:30Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > The Occupy Wall St (or your city) people would probably qualify as the far left. Most people would probably not consider them to be terrorists, though. Well, some of the people affiliated with Occupy Cleveland did try to blow up a bridge. I think that these individuals are a good example of leftist terrorists, but the reality is they are extremely rare in the US, and the far fringe of Occupy - most of the Occupy people disliked them before they were known to be terrorists, and were bascially horrified when they found out what they were up to. > **[Bridge bomb plot: Suspects were active in Occupy Cleveland, even as movement...](https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2012/05/bridge_bomb_plot_suspects_were.html)** > > Occupy Cleveland itself has not been implicated, but the arrests prompted organizers to cancel their May Day protest and instead spend the day distancing themselves from what they characterized as a fringe element. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/15 "2012-10-23T09:17:50Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Offhand, I can’t think of any active far-left terrorist groups, unless you think the ALF (Animal Liberation Front) still counts as ‘active’. > [@jasg](#): > > The [Earth Liberation Front](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front) might fit the bill. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Those are the ones I was thinking of, as well as some animals rights groups (of the sort who think PETA is too nice). It should be noted that although it’s probably safe to say that the vast majority of animal liberation activists lean left, there are exceptions, dissenters, heretics, etc. For example, some (very extreme and very marginal) animal liberation activists oppose abortion – they consider themselves pro-life across the board, be it a cow in a slaughterhouse, a mink in a mink farm, a fetus in its mother’s womb, or what have you. In the vegan, straight edge hardcore punk milieu in the 90’s, [we called them hardliners](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardline_(subculture)). They used to show up at concerts, hand out anti-abortion leaflets, get in fights with feminists, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/16 "2012-10-23T10:50:05Z")
I was particularly thinking about [SHAC](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Huntingdon_Animal_Cruelty), who managed to make themselves rather unpopular despite their target, Huntingdon Life Sciences, also being rather unpopular. There were also [these lovely people](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/4762481.stm). Yes, they really did that. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/17 "2012-10-23T11:25:34Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > No, that parenthetical remark is. Arguable. Marxism-Leninism, in is purest form, is an internationalist movement - which puts it in opposition to all nation-states, including America. That makes them _anti-American,_ which may or may not be the same thing as\* un-American.\* ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/18 "2012-10-23T22:06:30Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Arguable. Marxism-Leninism, in is purest form, is an internationalist movement - which puts it in opposition to all nation-states, including America. That makes them _anti-American,_ which may or may not be the same thing as\* un-American.\* I believe Stalin won that particular argument, with [del]Neoconservatism[/del] Trotskyism being rather left out of future policy debates. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/19 "2012-10-23T22:18:29Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > I believe Stalin won that particular argument… … Which is probably why **Alessan** specified that he was talking about Marxism-Leninism “in is purest form” – probably meaning Marxism-Leninism as it was before Stalin and “socialism in one country”. Is that right, **Alessan**? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457/20 "2012-10-23T22:29:59Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > … Which is probably why **Alessan** specified that he was talking about Marxism-Leninism “in is purest form” – probably meaning Marxism-Leninism as it was before Stalin and “socialism in one country”. Is that right, **Alessan**? Pretty much. The Soviet Union under Stalin was definitely as nationalistic as all hell; but not all Marxist-Leninists around the world are Stalinists. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/radical-extreme-left-in-us/638457.md?page=2)