# Rafael Palmeiro's got pretty big balls for a steroid cheat. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 2, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258 "2005-08-02T04:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/21 "2005-08-03T11:20:57Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Wasn’t it Jason Giambi who said he was working out at Barry Bonds’ house one day, and barry gave him some cream and…holy toledo…it had steroids in it and he didn’t know it. How stupid do these assholes think we are? Nope, that was Gary Sheffield. This is the first time Palmeiro has even mentioned the possibility that he took steroids. > [@brickbacon](#): > > Report: Palmeiro tested positive for stanozolol From Will Carroll over at BP: “Data released from 2003 and 2004 indicates that the most abused substances were deca-durabolin and winstrol. Winstrol does not have a classical half-life, while “deca,” the drug that Jason Giambi admitted using, has an active half-life of up to fifteen days. The “detectable period” for Winstrol is about 3 weeks for the oral and two months for the injectable.” So, he definitely took it during the season sometime. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/22 "2005-08-03T11:57:07Z")
Why can’t the rule in baseball be written this way: Here’s a list of substances you can take. [LIST HERE]. If what you want to take is not on the list - it is illegal to use and you will be considered a cheater and sanctions will be taken. Period. Want it to be legal? Submit it to a committee for analysis. This will stop all the designer drug shit, and the feeble excuse that “it wasn’t against the rules” because now it will be. Dammit how did honor fall so low on our collective consciousness totem-pole? How can someone enjoy a victory knowing they cheated? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/23 "2005-08-03T12:10:24Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Why can’t the rule in baseball be written this way: > > Here’s a list of substances you can take. [LIST HERE]. This list would either have to be extremely restrictive, or very complex, listing not only supplements but approved companies/distributors. This is because current law is extremely lax concerning regulation of supplements (i.e. their efficacy and content). Not that I don’t believe Palmeiro knew exactly what he was taking. > [@](#): > > Damn, now I have to reconsider my opinion of Selig as one of the great modern asshats. Nah, I think his place in the Asshat Pantheon is assured for all time. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/24 "2005-08-03T12:15:07Z")
Lets see, Lied to congress and caught in lie. Lied to public after being caught and lied about how it happened. Caught in this lie by NY Times. If we’re going to trust a newspaper this is probably the one. Homerun production jumped from mid 20’s to 30-40 for rest of career at age 28 when Canseco joined Texas at end of 1992 & played with him all of 1993. That actually seems to support Canseco. Votes for HOF going, going Gone!!! Of course this is all circumstantial and unproven. Terrrible of me not to give him the benefit of the doubt. BULLSHIT, keep in out the hall, from what I can see most of his Homers were juiced. See [http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/palmera01.shtml](http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/palmera01.shtml) for lifetime stats. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/25 "2005-08-03T12:19:03Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Dammit how did honor fall so low on our collective consciousness totem-pole? How can someone enjoy a victory knowing they cheated? “Winning isn’t everything; it’s the only thing.” ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/26 "2005-08-03T12:20:39Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Why can’t the rule in baseball be written this way: > > Here’s a list of substances you can take. [LIST HERE]. If what you want to take is not on the list - it is illegal to use and you will be considered a cheater and sanctions will be taken. Period. Want it to be legal? Submit it to a committee for analysis. This will stop all the designer drug shit, and the feeble excuse that “it wasn’t against the rules” because now it will be. > > Dammit how did honor fall so low on our collective consciousness totem-pole? How can someone enjoy a victory knowing they cheated? Hey, we’re a ‘win at all costs’ society and have been for a long time. As for the substance list there’s been an effort for some time to create a ‘blessed’ list for MLB. I’d bet that gets some motion after this. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/27 "2005-08-03T13:07:07Z")
As an aside, if a lot of people believe that this revelation will keep Palmiero out of the Hall of Fame, it is more because his qualifications were marginal to begin with and this is just the tipping point, or is it strictly because of the steroids? If the latter, then should we expect that McGwire (pretty much admitted to it in the congressional hearings), Bonds (BALCO scandal), and Sosa (no evidence, but suspicious) should likewise find the Hall of Fame doors barred? Taking it a step further, should it be a “ban” a la Pete Rose, or more of an unwritten rule that such players wont get the votes when nominated? Just to let you know where I stand, I vote for outright ban in cases of confirmed use. I’m not sure what to do in cases like Sosa. I don’t guess you can ban someone for “suspicion,” but there’s no rule that says one has to vote for him in any case. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/28 "2005-08-03T13:11:57Z")
> [@divemaster](#): > > As an aside, if a lot of people believe that this revelation will keep Palmiero out of the Hall of Fame, it is more because his qualifications were marginal to begin with and this is just the tipping point, or is it strictly because of the steroids? Depends on your view of Hall of Fame qualifications. Palmeiro’s problem is that he’s never been a guy that at any point in his career anyone really felt he was a Hall of Famer. Only in the last couple of years, people looked at him and said, “Huh, well, I _guess_ he is.” He’s also played his entire career in hitters’ parks like Wrigley, Camden and Arlington (the only park that consistently inflates hitting statistics more is Coors). Basically, he’s got a very high career value, but his peak value is pretty unimpressive. And peak value matters to HoF voters. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/29 "2005-08-03T16:47:55Z")
What’s the penalty for lying to Congress? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/30 "2005-08-03T17:25:56Z")
> [@plnnr](#): > > What’s the penalty for lying to Congress? I think he is guilty as hell, but where is the proof he lied to congress? ``` Umm, I don't want to dissuade you, I think it would be wonderful if they have enough to charge him with Perjury before Senate or some such crime. ``` Just after the Giambi fiasco with no way to get out the contract, I figure the Player Associations lawyers will find several holes in the evidence and prevent charges against him. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/31 "2005-08-03T20:26:36Z")
Actually, if he’s taking steroids, they are probably shrinking… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/32 "2005-08-03T22:52:57Z")
> [@divemaster](#): > > As an aside, if a lot of people believe that this revelation will keep Palmiero out of the Hall of Fame, it is more because his qualifications were marginal to begin with and this is just the tipping point, or is it strictly because of the steroids? If the latter, then should we expect that McGwire (pretty much admitted to it in the congressional hearings), Bonds (BALCO scandal), and Sosa (no evidence, but suspicious) should likewise find the Hall of Fame doors barred? > > Taking it a step further, should it be a “ban” a la Pete Rose, or more of an unwritten rule that such players wont get the votes when nominated? The rule that bans Rose A) Doesn’t mention gambling, or any specific offense; it simply says a player who is on the permanently ineligible list can’t be elected to the Hall of Fame, and B) Is a rule set by the HALL OF FAME, not Major League Baseball; they’re separate entities. If Bud Selig were to push through his proposed three-strikes policy and Palmiero were to be caught two more times and banned from baseball, he would presumably lose his eligibility for the Hall of Fame. > [@](#): > > Just to let you know where I stand, I vote for outright ban in cases of confirmed use. I’m not sure what to do in cases like Sosa. I don’t guess you can ban someone for “suspicion,” but there’s no rule that says one has to vote for him in any case. Sosa’s gonna get in, easy. After enough time has passed, suspicious and moderately bad behaviour gets forgotten. You have to be an out and out crook, e.g. Joe Jackson, to convince the voters you shouldn’t be in for long enough that it matters. This will harm Palmiero’s chances - fatally, I think - because A) He’s now a confirmed cheater. B) His case was controversial as it was. Sosa is NOT a confirmed cheater, and the valid suspicions will eventually be largely forgotten or dismissed (unless he gets caught cheating.) Sosa’s case was also more popular than Palmiero’s; he had a much more famous and generally superior peak period in his career than Palmiero did. You could argue Palmieros’ career has been the equal of Sosa’s, but Sosa reached a level Palmiero never did, which counts for something. He also seems to have a better chance to pass 600 home runs, which has a very rare cachet (only four players have ever done it, all super-elites, as opposed to like 20 or so for 500.) ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/33 "2005-08-03T23:05:41Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Dammit how did honor fall so low on our collective consciousness totem-pole? How can someone enjoy a victory knowing they cheated? You’re aware of the size of their paychecks, right? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/34 "2005-08-03T23:49:54Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The rule that bans Rose > > A) Doesn’t mention gambling, or any specific offense; it simply says a player who is on the permanently ineligible list can’t be elected to the Hall of Fame, and > > B) Is a rule set by the HALL OF FAME, not Major League Baseball; they’re separate entities. And was created right after the Rose banning. Do you think that was coincidental? Certainly it was passed specifically for Rose. > [@](#): > > Sosa’s gonna get in, easy. > … > Sosa is NOT a confirmed cheater Anyone wanting to vote No because of steroids has the corked-bat thing to fall back on as a presentable rationalization (did you forget that, too?). Any voter needing steroids too has his refusal to get tested as evidence. Anyway, his accomplishments can be compared to Roger Maris’s. Sammy is not in, and McGwire isn’t either. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/35 "2005-08-03T23:54:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > After enough time has passed, suspicious and moderately bad behaviour gets forgotten. You have to be an out and out crook, e.g. Joe Jackson, to convince the voters you shouldn’t be in for long enough that it matters. Joe Jackson was not and “out and out crook” He hit great and fielded well in the series. He gave back or did not take the money. Pick on Cicotte or someone else from the BlackSox. Shoeless Joe was guilty of not exposing the his friends more than being a crook. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/36 "2005-08-04T01:14:18Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Sosa is NOT a confirmed cheater Well, except for his suspension for cheating. You know, with the corked bat. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/37 "2005-08-04T01:49:02Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Having Bush testify for your integrity strikes me as rather like having Paris Hilton testify for your virtue. That’s a helluva sig line right there. 😛 Adam ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/38 "2005-08-04T03:45:34Z")
> [@divemaster](#): > > I’ve always liked Palmiero. Thought he was a class act. Didn’t grandstand or showboat. Didn’t act like a thug, get arrested, etc… Just did his job well day in and day out. And, apparently, did Sandberg’s wife -day in and day out - while Raffy was a Cub. I want to believe Raffy…I really do. He’s always had an air of believability about him that Bonds, Sheff, and Sosa couldn’t quite present. But, in an era when someone is convicted by court of public opinion by even being ACCUSED of a crime, I don’t know if I can. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/39 "2005-08-04T04:00:21Z")
Well, for those who haven’t seen, Congress is now apparently calling for more information on this incident, in order to decide whether Palmeiro should face chages for perjuring himself in front of the Committee that was investigating steroid abuse. Also, i saw on ESPN a few minutes ago that Palmeiro is going to release details of the incident. It appears that he believes that such information will help him, if not with MLB, then at least in the court of public opinion, and perhaps with HoF voters. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258/40 "2005-08-04T09:43:08Z")
I _really_ don’t understand the outcry about steroids, or the HOF issue, or any of it. My understanding is that with the proliferation of amphetamines, spitballs, corked bats, steroids, and other such things, that there has never been a single fairly-played MLB game. Ever. Purity/integrity of the game? Please. When exactly was the game pure, and when did it ever have integrity? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rafael-palmeiros-got-pretty-big-balls-for-a-steroid-cheat/315258.md?page=3)