# Raiders of the Lost Ark revisionism **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 7, 2003, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669 "2003-03-07T05:56:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RawkStah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@RawkStah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RawkStah)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/41 "2003-03-08T06:37:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Legomancer \* > \*\*Keep in mind, though, that Spielberg insisted that the original version of ET also be available. Unlike Lucas, he let people choose which version they wanted. > \*\* But, Lucas, with his revisions (and I think the Greedo/Solo shoot-out was dumb), is making what he wanted to make in the first place, but was unable to due to technology. And, he’s adding continuity. Did anyone but me notice that Han Solo gained a scar in the special edition of “A New Hope”? Ford didn’t have that scar on his lip in '77. Plus, since Lucas considers the “Star Wars” saga to be one 12-hour movie, it’s still not done. We’ve been seeing teasers and rough drafts. Spielberg’s “new” version of “ET” was released by someone who was older, and felt that he’d made some errors and was looking to correct them. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/42 "2003-03-08T07:06:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RawkStah \* > \*\* > > Spielberg’s “new” version of “ET” was released by someone who was older, and felt that he’d made some errors and was looking to correct them. \*\* Which means that the FBI was originally supposed to be completely unarmed, with only walkie talkies instead of shotguns? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/43 "2003-03-08T07:09:51Z")
Ok, so that line wasn’t in the script. I’m crazy. I still feel like I’ve heard “aged a year for each day I did not drink” ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/44 "2003-03-08T08:15:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hoops \* > \*\*and I find that the name has been changed. > > The new official title is _Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark_, with Indiana Jones large and the Raiders etc small, so as to match the logos of the other two IJ movies. I ask you, was this really necessary?\*\* It was only for the box, to make the [complete set](http://www.indianajones.com/index.html) be consistent on your shelves. The actual film still has exactly the same titling as ever before. ---
**Author:** ![Fibber\_McGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a6a055/32.png) [@Fibber\_McGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fibber_McGee)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/45 "2003-03-08T08:24:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RawkStah \* > \*\*But, Lucas, with his revisions (and I think the Greedo/Solo shoot-out was dumb), is making what he wanted to make in the first place, but was unable to due to technology. And, he’s adding continuity. Did anyone but me notice that Han Solo gained a scar in the special edition of “A New Hope”? Ford didn’t have that scar on his lip in '77. > \*\* So, scar makeup wasn’t possible in 1977? I could care less what Lucas thinks he’s doing. If he insists on not making the original versions of the film available on DVD, _I_ insist on never owning and Star Wars films of DVD. If he want’s to “improve” the films, fine, but why can’t he also make the original versions available. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Plus, since Lucas considers the “Star Wars” saga to be one 12-hour movie, it’s still not done. We’ve been seeing teasers and rough drafts. > \*\* :smack: From all I’ve seen so far, in the end the “rough drafts” will be better than the final product. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/46 "2003-03-08T13:40:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fibber McGee \* > **So, scar makeup wasn’t possible in 1977?** No, Ford didn’t have a scar in '77, he got it some time later in a car accident on his way to an audition. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/47 "2003-03-08T14:07:20Z")
**Diceman** : that same quote could also be taken to mean that it you want immortality, you have to stay with the Grail…i.e., one sip from the Grail doesn’t make you immortal, instead you have to drink from it regularly. **Evil Death** : the “he could have been old when he found the Grail” theory has a slight flaw: someone that old might not have been flexible…er, penitent enough to kneel and do a forward somersault before God… (Does anyone else get these hilarious mental pictures of legions of knights doing solemn somersaults in church during the Crusades?) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/48 "2003-03-08T15:44:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Orbifold \* > \*\ ***Evil Death** : the “he could have been old when he found the Grail” theory has a slight flaw: someone that old might not have been flexible…er, penitent enough to kneel and do a forward somersault before God… \*\* And just who do you think installed the traps? He did, obviously - so he knew just where to kneel to avoid both blades. (The floor blade being there to catch people who are crawling instead of kneeling, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/49 "2003-03-08T16:02:19Z")
Also regarding the traps. When he has to walk the path of the name of God or whatever, Indy almost steps on the “J” for Jehovah before remembering that it would be spelled with an “I” instead. Reason being that the letter “J” didn’t exist. So why was it a tile, then? ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/50 "2003-03-08T17:35:39Z")
And technically, shouldn’t the word have been YHWH or El Shaddai? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/51 "2003-03-08T17:39:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Legomancer \* > \*\*Also regarding the traps. When he has to walk the path of the name of God or whatever, Indy almost steps on the “J” for Jehovah before remembering that it would be spelled with an “I” instead. > > Reason being that the letter “J” didn’t exist. \*\* No, reason being that the letter wasn’t used in Latin. By the time the traps were added, it had been added to the alphabet and was put in to fool the unwise. (The only problem with which is that the knights found the tomb in the 12th Century and J wasn’t created until the 15th - but maybe somebody passed the trials later and commented to the knight that they were a bit easy what with there being no “J”.) Bear in mind when thinking of the traps why they were made. They weren’t made to keep everyone out - only the unworthy. The first test is piety, bowing your head to God before embarking on a journey in his name. The second test is knowledge, to ensure you worship the one true God. The third is faith, stepping out across the Abyss in the belief that God won’t let you fall. The fourth is trial by combat, which God wouldn’t let an unworthy man win. And the fifth is wisdom, understanding the humility taught by Jesus and knowing that he wouldn’t have drunk from a great chalice if a simple wooden cup would suffice. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/52 "2003-03-08T17:44:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Legomancer \* > \*\*Also regarding the traps. When he has to walk the path of the name of God or whatever, Indy almost steps on the “J” for Jehovah before remembering that it would be spelled with an “I” instead. > > Reason being that the letter “J” didn’t exist. \*\* No, reason being that the letter wasn’t used in Latin. By the time the traps were added, it had been added to the alphabet and was put in to fool the unwise. (The only problem with which is that the knights found the tomb in the 12th Century and J wasn’t created until the 15th - but maybe somebody passed the trials later and commented to the knight that they were a bit easy what with there being no “J”.) Bear in mind when thinking of the traps why they were made. They weren’t made to keep everyone out - only the unworthy. The first test is piety, bowing your head to God before embarking on a journey in his name. The second test is knowledge, to ensure you worship the one true God. The third is faith, stepping out across the Abyss in the belief that God won’t let you fall. The fourth is trial by combat, which God wouldn’t let an unworthy man win. And the fifth is wisdom, understanding the humility taught by Jesus and knowing that he wouldn’t have drunk from a great chalice if a simple wooden cup would suffice. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/53 "2003-03-08T17:48:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by interface2x \* > \*\*And technically, shouldn’t the word have been YHWH or El Shaddai? \*\* No, because a Jew of the time wouldn’t write those down and a Gentile wouldn’t use those spellings. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/54 "2003-03-08T18:41:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Diceman: that same quote could also be taken to mean that it you want immortality, you have to stay with the Grail…i.e., one sip from the Grail doesn’t make you immortal, instead you have to drink from it regularly. Now that I think about, my theory doesn’t hold up. I forgot about the knight’s two brothers. Presumably, they also drank from the Grail, but they eventually died. So it would seem that staying with the Grail is a requirement for being immortal. It’s possible that drinking from the Grail regularly is necessary, but they didn’t specifically say so. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/55 "2003-03-08T19:00:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diceman \* > \*\*Now that I think about, my theory doesn’t hold up. I forgot about the knight’s two brothers. Presumably, they also drank from the Grail, but they eventually died. So it would seem that staying with the Grail is a requirement for being immortal. It’s possible that drinking from the Grail regularly is necessary, but they didn’t specifically say so. \*\* One of the brothers returned _centuries later_ and then died of extreme old age. That would suggest that the years the Grail spares you are rapidly reapplied when you stop using it. ---
**Author:** ![RawkStah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@RawkStah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RawkStah)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/56 "2003-03-09T01:20:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HPL \* > \*\*Which means that the FBI was originally supposed to be completely unarmed, with only walkie talkies instead of shotguns? \*\* No, meaning that Spielberg made the adults (who were already frightening) in “ET” more scary by giving them guns with which to shoot frightened, unarmed children on bicycles. Adults in “ET” were never evil, and wouldn’t intentionally hurt children – they’ve just forgotten what it’s like to be young. My guess is that he felt that giving the FBI agents shotguns (and, presumably, orders to shoot to kill), was a bit much. Spielberg is 20 years older now, and has children of his own. When he made it originally, he still listened to his inner 12-year-old a LOT. While he hasn’t lost the ability to tap into his childhood, he’s learned to reign the childhood in. OT: Spielberg bought the rights to “Schindler’s List” after directing “Jaws”. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669/57 "2003-03-09T02:16:38Z")
once again, i must be the only person who read the book. yes, i admit it; i read all but 2 of the indiana jones books… indiana jones and the last crusade by rob macgregor page 209 indy has used the grail on dad. dad starts to talk to the knight guardian. hj: …“why are you so old?” kg: “many times my spirit faltered, and i could not bear to drink from the cup, so i aged, a year for every day i did not drink. but now at last, i am released to death with honour, for this brave knight-errant cometh to take my place.” hj: " he is not a knight-errant, he’s just my errant son who has led an impure life. unworthy of the honour you bestow." a bit later elsa grabs the grail while the knight tries to find someone to take his place. kg: “no! the grail can never leave this place! never!”… “you must not cross the seal.” … " she will pay dearly" regarding the knights who found the grail. pg 51 three brothers find the grail. one hundred and fifty years after finding the grail, two of these brothers walked out of the desert and began their journey home. but only one made it back, and before dying of extreme old age, he imparted his tale to a franciscan friar. thus: the book would lead you to believe that drinking from the grail would extend your life quite a bit. staying with the grail and drinking from it would extend your life until you either destroyed the cup or left the cave. then you are subject to the pitfalls of being human; accidents, colds, flu, heart disease, etc. the knight aging a year per day was punishment for doubting his mission: guarding the grail. this is why indy was able to live to his 90’s and have a tv series. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-revisionism/159669.md?page=2)