# Railroad fuel cars explode in small Quebec town **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 7, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851 "2013-07-07T03:51:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/81 "2013-08-14T16:30:46Z")
> [@Nanoda](#): > > The MMA chairman blaming the fire department also seems weird. If I put out your train fire and leave it with one of your dudes, that’s job done IMHO. Why didn’t we wake up your engineer to look at the scene? Why didn’t _your_ guy wake your engineer to look at the scene? 😕 well there is some logic to that although it falls to the wayside because of the tragedy. The fire department didn’t know what they were doing and turned it over to someone else who didn’t know what he was doing. SOP should be following up with phone calls to ensure the trains are secure. I’ve been through this in the heavy lift transportation business. I ended up annoying a lot people until I was satisfied a serious problem was addressed. In any business there is a lot of “that’s how we’ve always done it and nothing ever happened” mentality. Rarely do people like me make it to the top by pissing on other people’s cheerios. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/82 "2013-08-14T16:34:42Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > That’s why I’m a proponent of tough environmental and safety regulations including cleanup bonding. There isn’t enough insurance money on the planet to cover stupid. All a governing agency can can do is pick a number for minimum liability and enforce it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/83 "2013-08-14T16:48:53Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > That’s what people who put the bottom line ahead of people’s lives always say. > > He has no credibility and should just shut up until his disreputable company has paid all of its obligations to the families of the people his company killed. I disagree, possibly. What the Chairman said made sense IF rules weren’t followed: In an interview with The Globe and Mail, MM&A chairman Edward Burkhardt called the TSB’s suggestions “reasonable,” but added that more regulation of the rail industry might not make a difference when the “vast majority” of accidents are caused by violation of an existing rule. It “SHOULD” have been a simple process to secure the train. If procedures weren’t followed then all the regulations in the world are meaningless. I’ve been in air freight all my life. We use checklists for damn near everything yet 4 pilots including a check-ride pilot couldn’t figure out they were so far below the glide slope at SFO that they destroyed the plane and killed 3 people. This was something ANYONE in the cockpit could figure out and I’m not exaggerating. You can add "don’t fucking fly 100 feet off the ground on a half mile final"as a new regulation and it wouldn’t add anything to the current regulations. 4 people sat there and watched a plane crash. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/84 "2013-08-14T17:26:06Z")
Except one of the issues in this case may be the fact that MMA operated with a single crewman, and left the train unattended for hours at a time. That may require rethinking ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/85 "2013-08-14T17:41:53Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Except one of the issues in this case may be the fact that MMA operated with a single crewman, and left the train unattended for hours at a time. That may require rethinking I may be mistaken but I think they use 2 or 3 crew members on trains in the US. They still park them in my area when they run out of time. I assume they pick the locations because they are on level track but I have no clue. There is nothing that shouldn’t be on the table regarding safety. One would think a mechanical blocking of the wheels is in order. Maybe a train expert can explain why this isn’t done. It’s SOP with aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/86 "2013-08-14T18:22:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There is nothing that shouldn’t be on the table regarding safety. One would think a mechanical blocking of the wheels is in order. Maybe a train expert can explain why this isn’t done. It’s SOP with aircraft. I’m not a train expert, but I have driven a truck and had to learn an airbrake system. I’d suggest that blocking a train’s wheels is unnecessary for the same reason that a semi-truck’s wheels aren’t blocked: because the airbrakes are on. Technically, an airbrake system is known as a “Westinghouse safety brake,” where the key word is “safety,” because the system must be charged with compressed air in order to release the brake. An accidental or intentional loss of air pressure locks the wheels. For example, this loss of air pressure is the hiss you hear when a semi-truck parks, and the driver puts on the parking brake. That truck won’t move until the driver releases the brake (i.e. puts air in the system). As I said, I’m not a train expert, but the brakes (and the principles) are similar, so I’d imagine it’s the same with trains. That being said, however, I know a railroader who tells me that it is common for trains to be parked on sidings that feature “derail” mechanisms. If the train moves accidentally, the derail knocks the engine and maybe the first car off the rails, stopping the train. It’s a pain to put it back, but it is better than having an unmanned runaway train. At any rate, derail mechanisms are what trains use instead of wheel chocks; but in this case, it is obvious that the train was not parked in front of a derail mechanism. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/87 "2013-08-15T04:18:55Z")
Any company I’ve worked for has blocked trailers at the dock. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/88 "2013-09-23T03:56:50Z")
So, a few developments: [Railways face higher insurance costs in review of Lac-Mégantic crash](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/lac-megantic-crash-prompts-review-of-railway-insurance-rules/article14331237/): the article indicates that the MMA was substantially under-insured to cover the costs of the accident: > [@](#): > > At the time of the accident, the company’s third-party liability insurance was worth $25-million – a fraction of the expected costs of cleaning up after the devastating accident. Documents filed with a Quebec court last month indicate MM&A expects the environmental cleanup alone to cost more than $200-million, and the company is also facing numerous lawsuits from the families of those who died in the crash. [Crude that exploded in Lac-Mégantic was mislabelled: officials](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/crude-that-exploded-in-lac-megantic-was-mislabelled-regulator-says/article14239877/) > [@](#): > > The TSB, which investigates major transportation incidents, issued a safety advisory letter Wednesday morning, informing Transport Canada and the United States Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration that the crude on a runaway train that devastated Lac-Mégantic was more volatile than its classification indicated. > … > However, even if the oil had been properly classified, current rules do not require it to be transported in a different type of tank car. But Mr. Ross said the incident “calls into question” the adequacy of the rail cars used to transport such material. And on the environmental side: [Lac Megantic: Environmental report details extent of contamination](http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/09/17/lac_megantic_environmental_report_details_extent_of_contamination.html) > [@](#): > > There was never doubt that the deadly train derailment in Lac-Mégantic caused an environmental disaster, but a report made public this week by Quebec’s ministry of the environment details the extent of the devastation to the soil, river and lake near the disaster zone. > > An estimated 5.6 million litres of crude oil spilled out of the 72-car train that barrelled into the Quebec town July 6. A significant percentage burned off in the explosion and blaze, but several hundred thousand litres of oil seeped into the soil and Lac-Mégantic’s sewage system. > > In all, 31 hectares of land were contaminated. [Stretch of MMA tracks deemed unsafe by Transport Canada](http://www.montrealgazette.com/technology/Stretch+tracks+deemed+unsafe+Transport+Canada/8905977/story.html): > [@](#): > > Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway’s tracks were found to be in such bad condition during recent inspections that Transport Canada has effectively ordered the railway to stop using a 20-kilometre section of its network. [http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/09/05/mma\_railway\_could\_be\_sold\_by\_january\_trustee\_says.html](http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/09/05/mma_railway_could_be_sold_by_january_trustee_says.html) > [@](#): > > The bankrupt railroad whose runaway train derailed and caused an explosion that killed 47 people in Lac-Mégantic, Que., could be sold by year’s end, the company’s trustee said Thursday. > > Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway has made no secret that its sale will be necessary to repay creditors and victims following the July 6 disaster. And railroad trustee Robert Keach said he’s already been approached by “several” potential buyers. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/89 "2014-05-13T11:58:14Z")
[MM&A Railway faces charges in Lac-Mégantic disaster: Crown says 47 counts of criminal negligence filed against 3 people and MM&A Railway](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/mm-a-railway-faces-charges-in-lac-m%C3%A9gantic-disaster-1.2640654) > [@](#): > > The Quebec provincial prosecutor’s office said 47 counts of criminal negligence have been filed against engineer Thomas Harding, manager of train operations Jean Demaitre, and Richard Labrie, the railway’s traffic controller, as well as against the Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway Ltd., the defunct railway at the heart of the disaster. The charges represent one count for each person killed and are the first criminal charges brought in the disaster. Criminal negligence that causes death can result in a jail sentence of up to life imprisonment in Canada. > > … > > The arrests came just days before the closing of the sale of the bankrupt railroad. > > The $15.85 million sale of Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway is expected to close on Thursday in the U.S., but there could be a delay of a few days on a parallel proceeding in Canada. Most of the proceeds will be used to repay creditors. > > … > > The total environmental cleanup alone could end up costing between $200 million and $500 million based on early estimates, and there’s only $25 million in insurance payouts available for wrongful death, personal injury, property damage, fire suppression and environmental impact. > > The railroad’s buyer, a subsidiary of New York-based Fortress Investment Group, is changing the railroad’s name to Central Maine and Quebec Railway. The company said it hopes to recapture lost business but has no plans to try to bring back oil shipments. Interesting that they’ve charged two managers as well as the company itself. Don’t know how much effect the charge against the company will have, since it’s in bankruptcy and then under new management. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/90 "2014-05-14T19:49:15Z")
Three accused released on $15,000 bail; townsfolk think higher-ups should be charged; Sûreté says not enough evidence; Crown has asked for more investigation. > **[The next chapter of Lac-Mégantic takes place in the courts](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-next-chapter-of-lac-megantic-takes-place-in-the-courts/article18653467/?service=mobile)** > > Families of the disaster victims watch as three railway employees are paraded into a courtroom, but many believe the wrong people are being charged ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/91 "2015-01-10T14:46:50Z")
[$200 million settlement of civil suits; must be approved by courts in Canada and the US](http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/lac-megantic-lawsuit-settled-with-200m-for-victims-1.2181962) ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/92 "2015-01-11T10:25:43Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > [$200 million settlement of civil suits; must be approved by courts in Canada and the US](http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/lac-megantic-lawsuit-settled-with-200m-for-victims-1.2181962) Where is that amount of money going to come from? I see from the article that plaintiffs have named a whole bunch of additional companies. Is that where they expect to find all that money? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/93 "2015-01-11T11:49:33Z")
From the article: > [@](#): > > The settlement involves the Montreal Maine and Atlantic Canada Co., its insurance carrier, rail-car manufacturers and some oil producers. > … > He said the amount will go even higher because three other companies – World Fuel Services, Canadian Pacific Railway and Irving Oil – have yet to contribute. I assume from these statements that each of the companies named (or their insurance) is kicking in a portion. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/94 "2017-10-26T18:46:17Z")
Updating this thread, some recent information has come out placing more of the blame on corporate officials: > [@](#): > > A former locomotive engineer for the Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway (MMA) who regularly ran trains between Farnham and Lac-Mégantic, Que., said he was not allowed to refuse to operate a train, even when he knew it was over the maximum allowed weight. > > Breathing quickly, his voice quivering, François Daigle testified Thursday at the trial of his former colleagues on charges related to the 2013 deadly Lac-Mégantic trail derailment and explosions. His testimony is only being reported now because it was subject to a publication ban until Superior Court Justice Gaétan Dumas lifted that ban Monday morning… > > Earlier in his testimony, Daigle told Dumas and the 14 jurors he drove locomotive 5017 — the same locomotive that was pulling the train that derailed two days later — from Vachon, near Lac-Mégantic, to Farnham on July 4, 2013. Daigle said on that trip he noticed the locomotive kept losing speed and produced black smoke. Daigle told the court he reported the problems to his supervisor, Jean Demaître, and sent a fax to the repair shop in Maine at the end of his shift. Daigle said he asked Demaître to change the lead locomotive because of the repair issues… > > Daigle said he understood that to mean no changes would be made. > **[MMA train that derailed and exploded at Lac-Mégantic nearly 3,000 tonnes too...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/mma-trial-train-overweight-1.4367611)** > > Former Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway locomotive engineer François Daigle, who regularly ran trains between Farnham and Lac-Mégantic, Que., told a jury he was not allowed to refuse to operate a train, even when he knew it was over the maximum... ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/95 "2017-10-27T15:44:22Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I’m not a train expert, but I have driven a truck and had to learn an airbrake system. I’d suggest that blocking a train’s wheels is unnecessary for the same reason that a semi-truck’s wheels aren’t blocked: because the airbrakes are on. Technically, an airbrake system is known as a “Westinghouse safety brake,” where the key word is “safety,” because the system must be charged with compressed air in order to release the brake. An accidental or intentional loss of air pressure locks the wheels. For example, this loss of air pressure is the hiss you hear when a semi-truck parks, and the driver puts on the parking brake. That truck won’t move until the driver releases the brake (i.e. puts air in the system). As I said, I’m not a train expert, but the brakes (and the principles) are similar, so I’d imagine it’s the same with trains. > > That being said, however, I know a railroader who tells me that it is common for trains to be parked on sidings that feature “derail” mechanisms. If the train moves accidentally, the derail knocks the engine and maybe the first car off the rails, stopping the train. It’s a pain to put it back, but it is better than having an unmanned runaway train. At any rate, derail mechanisms are what trains use instead of wheel chocks; but in this case, it is obvious that the train was not parked in front of a derail mechanism. This is a reply to a a four-year-old posting. That is not at all how the air brakes on a train work. The brakes are applied by compressed air in the brake cylinder pressing the brake shoe against the wheel. In Westinghouse’s original design, you simply applied the compressed air to the train pipe which distributed it to all the wheels. This was less than an optimal system because, among other things, if the train parted any air fed into the pipe would run out of the back without effect and you would have no braking power when you needed it the most. OTOH, the “safety brake” would store the compressed air in an auxiliary reservoir on each car and, if the train pipe parted, the system would detect it and apply the stored air to the brakes and stop the train, both halves if necessary. That’s where the “safety” came from. Eight years ago I wrote this up in [excruciating detail](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11286235&postcount=38). Note that in neither case are the brakes released by applying compressed air.\* I did not mention in that post what happens when you park a car, or string of cars. A string of cars is dropped off and left at an industry. They were, naturally, stopped by the air brakes but the various seals leak. After a while, the air in the brake cylinder would bleed off and you have no more brakes. Train cars roll very easily so if there is the slightest grade, they’re going to roll off and have an adventure. For this reason, every piece of railroad rolling stock has a handbrake, a wheel or ratchet lever to apply the brake on at least one truck. Here’s the kicker: The air brake is far tighter than any muscle power can apply it. A string is dropped off, Joe Newguy cranks the wheel until it stops, and he walks off, contented. The air bleeds off, all the brake rigging gets slack, and the string meanders off to have another adventure. Instead, the proper procedure is to first pull on a lever close to the brake cylinder to bleed off the air, _then_ apply the handbrake. That way, you know the brakes will still be on when the air bleeds off, because you bled it off yourself. Occasionally, this doesn’t happen which is why some sidings have derailers, and sometimes you have an adventure. While looking for an image of a brake wheel, I stumbled across the Canadian [report](http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/rail/2013/r13d0054/r13d0054.asp) which goes into exhausting detail on how that particular adventure occurred. Less adventuresome, [here](http://www.aidtrain.com/products/HopperDemo/inspect/pages/001/content.htm) is a page detailing on how to keep a car being worked on in place; notice that chocks are used. \*I did belong to a [railroad club](http://www.rsme.org/) that operated a 15-in. gauge railroad on about a half-mile of track. On that, the train length was limited to about a half-dozen cars and to release the brakes, air pressure was fed into the pipe which moved the brake cylinder against a spring that kept the brake applied. To move a car without a locomotive, you’d wind the sheel against the spring and keep in it place with a ratchet, exactly the opposite of the big boys. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/96 "2017-10-27T19:40:15Z")
I like the way you say, “…roll off and have an adventure”. Sounds so jovial and benign. And in no way could flatten a little Canadian town. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/97 "2017-10-27T20:23:38Z")
Sorta like how the medical folks use the phrase “death by misadventure” to describe something that was supposed to be fun but turned out otherwise. e.g. erotic auto-asphyxiation, and most serious Darwin Award attempts. It sounds so much nicer than “an overdose of stupid with a side of unlucky.” ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/98 "2017-10-27T21:41:05Z")
I still think the regulator who signed off on the one-man crew should also be prosecuted. Ever hear of fail-safe? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2017, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/99 "2017-10-27T23:08:35Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Sorta like how the medical folks use the phrase “death by misadventure” to describe something that was supposed to be fun but turned out otherwise. e.g. erotic auto-asphyxiation, and most serious Darwin Award attempts. > > **It sounds so much nicer than “an overdose of stupid with a side of unlucky.”** No, that’s what hot-dog pilots do. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851/100 "2017-10-28T01:14:03Z")
Yup. A saying in USAF tactical aviation was “There’s no point in trying to fly real, real low. You’ll never break the record; only tie it. Zero feet is all there is and that record’s over a century old.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/railroad-fuel-cars-explode-in-small-quebec-town/662851.md?page=6)